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Unread 03-18-2005, 08:12 PM   #1
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Angry, Read to see why, please!!

Ok. Well, my church is deciding on whether to go with the Southern Baptist Convention or the Baptist General Convention here in Texas, so they handed out theses big pamphlets explaining what these both parties supported.

Well, my father was doing some reading, and stumbled across some ministries that really scare me!
The Baptist Women in Ministry held a conference ( I don't know what yer this was, but it was recent) in which the speaker (Carolyn Gordon) encouraged women to "soar" remembering that "Her Grace" is enough for them.Also, she joked about her choice of a "Pauline" epistle... reluctant to use Paul...because"he has not been our friend lately".

They also said that we should not put the Bible on a pedastal, instead interpreting things by our times.

AlsoA feminist preacher,Reba Cobb, preached a message verbatim from feminist theologian David G Owen. In some o fhis works he advocates the worship of the goddess Sophia (which is also referred to as "Mother God"), which is the mother of Jesus, allegedly.

So watch out what you support, because al ot of these "Ministries" are actually celebrating these farces and some are even promoting a syncretism of witchcraft and Christianity, lesbian relationships, abortions right etc...

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Unread 03-19-2005, 12:49 AM   #2
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the only ministry I support is that of God and the bible. Religion doesn't get you to heaven so who cares what you are as long as you know what you believe in. They can call me whatever they want, but there is only one true way to heaven. So don't worry about what your church will be called.
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Unread 03-19-2005, 12:51 AM   #3
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[QUOTE=Thrash In some of his works he advocates the worship of the goddess Sophia (which is also referred to as "Mother God"), which is the mother of Jesus, allegedly.[/QUOTE]

Actually, Sophia is the name sometimes given to wisdom as "she" is personified in several Old Testament books, especially Proverbs.

"Blessed is the man who finds wisdom, the man who gains understanding, for she is more profitable than silver and yields better returns than gold. She is more precious than rubies; nothing you desire can compare with her. Long life is in her right hand; in her left hand are riches and honor. Her ways are pleasant ways, and all her paths are peace. She is a tree of life to those who embrace her; those who lay hold of her will be blessed." Proverbs 3:13-18, NIV.

Apparently the author of Proverbs saw wisdom as a woman. Theologians interpret these passages in several different ways, but they refer to this as Sophia. It's Biblical. The character is also expanded upon further in the Apocrypha.

Maybe to refer to God as "Her" makes just as little sense as it does when we call God "Him." Do we really think the God of the universe is a sexual being? Our language does not have an appropriate pronoun, since "it" seems completely insufficient when speaking of God. Maybe that's why God simply said "I AM." I didn't read the articles, but not all feminist theology is way off the deep end.
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Unread 03-19-2005, 12:52 AM   #4
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Those sure as heck weren't Southern Baptists who were saying those things. We SBCers are characterized / stereotyped as being one of the most fundamentalist denominations around.

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Nate
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Unread 03-19-2005, 12:55 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twins_fan
Maybe to refer to God as "Her" makes just as little sense as it does when we call God "Him." Do we really think the God of the universe is a sexual being? Our language does not have an appropriate pronoun, since "it" seems completely insufficient when speaking of God. Maybe that's why God simply said "I AM."
That may have been all He revealed Himself as to Moses, but throughout th rest of the Bible, the masculine pronouns / nouns / etc are used to refer to God with remarkable consistency. I'm pretty sure, though I could be very wrong, that our use of such masculine pronouns / nouns / etc is justified by the original text.

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Unread 03-19-2005, 01:04 AM   #6
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AlsoA feminist preacher,Reba Cobb, preached a message verbatim from feminist theologian David G Owen. In some o fhis works he advocates the worship of the goddess Sophia (which is also referred to as "Mother God"), which is the mother of Jesus, allegedly.
If I am remembering what I just read correctly, the gnostics believed Sophia was Jesus' mother, in a way. The Gnostics were real wackjobs.
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Unread 03-19-2005, 01:12 AM   #7
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[QUOTE=Nate]That may have been all He revealed Himself as to Moses, but throughout th rest of the Bible, the masculine pronouns / nouns / etc are used to refer to God with remarkable consistency. I'm pretty sure, though I could be very wrong, that our use of such masculine pronouns / nouns / etc is justified by the original text.

I believe that the Bible is the inspired Word of God, but that doesn't mean it isn't also a cultural document. The Bible was written by men in a time period when women had no power whatsoever. Obviously, Jesus was male. There is also a lot of masculine imagery associated with God, but all analogies fall utterly short anyway. Jesus also told his disciples that he longed to gather Jerusalem to him as a hen gathers her chicks, so femine imagery isn't totally missing. There are some others that I can't remember right now.

I don't know ancient Hebrew either, but I would imagine that it, like English and Spanish, falls amazingly short of being able to express God. Sometimes there are no better words. I certainly don't refer to God as "Her" but to insist that God is male (not that you're doing that) is to insist that God has a _____.
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Unread 03-19-2005, 01:14 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by twins_fan
to insist that God is male (not that you're doing that) is to insist that God has a _____.
Only if the possession of a _____ is the only thing that defines maleness as such.

I'm not a post-modernist or a feminist, so I would staunchly disagree with that assessment.

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Nate
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Unread 03-19-2005, 01:31 AM   #9
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate
Only if the possession of a _____ is the only thing that defines maleness as such.

I'm not a post-modernist or a feminist, so I would staunchly disagree with that assessment.
ah, you're right. Testes are a requirement too. And I am forgetting about Eunuchs.
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Unread 03-19-2005, 01:35 AM   #10
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I have never called my female parent father. The only parent I called father was male. The word father is used quite often in the Bible in reference to God.
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Unread 03-19-2005, 01:54 AM   #11
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you guys have to remember there is a difference between male and masculine. yes males are masculine. look at the spanish language where different objjects are masculine and feminine. when the bible calls god a he it is saying he is masculine. according to spanish cheese is masculine(queso if it were feminine it would be quesa) so you cannot just say bible says he god has a _____
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Unread 03-19-2005, 02:05 AM   #12
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Gendered nouns

Quote:
Originally Posted by leenieweenie
you guys have to remember there is a difference between male and masculine. yes males are masculine. look at the spanish language where different objjects are masculine and feminine. when the bible calls god a he it is saying he is masculine. according to spanish cheese is masculine(queso if it were feminine it would be quesa) so you cannot just say bible says he god has a _____
Again, the complete inadequacy of all human language when it comes to the divine. Does anyone know if Ancient Hebrew and Ancient Greek have gendered nouns like Spanish and French do?
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Unread 03-19-2005, 09:09 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twins_fan
Again, the complete inadequacy of all human language when it comes to the divine. Does anyone know if Ancient Hebrew and Ancient Greek have gendered nouns like Spanish and French do?
In Greek, Father and Son are masculine but the Spirit is neuter.

Also, in the Isaiah (Isaiah 42:14, 46:3, 49:15, 66:13; Matthew 23:37; Luke 15:8-10 all show either explicit or implicit feminine images applied to God). YHWH is said the care for his people as a mother cares for her children. Obviously the male imagery is more abundant in the Bible and in the Tradition of the Church. Thus it is preferred. However, througout the Tradition there has been a recognition that God is supra-gender and neither 'male' nor 'female' can adequately describe God (of course, God is above all our descriptions); thus, there is biblical and theological precedent to call God mother but Father/Son/Holy Spirit are still the most proper names for the persons of the Trinity since these have the most solid roots in Scripture. .
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Unread 03-19-2005, 08:20 PM   #14
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I understand what you are saying about Sophia being the name for wisdom, but referring to "Her Grace" as the mother of Jesus is of the deep end.
Alos what about that witchcraft syncretism thing? That is a big crock. How can theses people refer to themselves as Christians when what they are doing is going against HIS Word.

Also, since Jesus was God in the Flesh and was a MALE, then wouldn't that mean that God is a male?
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Unread 03-20-2005, 12:41 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twins_fan
I certainly don't refer to God as "Her" but to insist that God is male (not that you're doing that) is to insist that God has a _____.
Eunichs or castrata are certainly still male.
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