[mlqurgw]

Are the Romans road and the four spiritual laws enough for evangelism? They both seem to me to be entirely too man centered and deal very little if at all with the holy character of God. Do they overemphasize the love of God?


Perhaps I should provide a link to them.
http://www.godlovestheworld.com/

http://www.gotquestions.org/Romans-road-salvation.html

[nate95366]

I think the 4 spiritual laws might come close to what you're talking about, but the way I see things, the Romans road is all about God's sovereignty and holiness.

Nate

[mlqurgw]

Originally Posted by nate95366

I think the 4 spiritual laws might come close to what you're talking about, but the way I see things, the Romans road is all about God's sovereignty and holiness.

Nate

From the perspective of someone who already understands it I agree. But to someone who only has a view of God that is based on erroneous ideas it seems to butruss those ideas.

[OneHope]

I only know of Four Spiritual Laws, and too me it seems like a quick-fix solution, a drive-thru version of Christianity. Building a relationship with Christ is something that is built and takes years and I don't think it starts the minute you ask Christ into your heart. I know for me I said The Sinner's Prayer at 13 but my relationship with Christ started way before that.

[mlqurgw]

Originally Posted by OneHope

I only know of Four Spiritual Laws, and too me it seems like a quick-fix solution, a drive-thru version of Christianity. Building a relationship with Christ is something that is built and takes years and I don't think it starts the minute you ask Christ into your heart. I know for me I said The Sinner's Prayer at 13 but my relationship with Christ started way before that.

That my problem with it. It seems it is good for fire insurance but nothing else.

[bobthecockroach]

Paul must've really screwed things up; he didn't use anywhere near that much detail.

Acts 16:29-31
Then he called for a light, ran in, and fell down trembling before Paul and Silas. And he brought them out and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Also noteworthy:

Hebrews 11:6b
...he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

Jesus isn't even mentioned in that one.

Then, of course, there's Jesus' own words.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Notice what it doesn't say. It doesn't say, "whoever believes in Him and understands His nature." It doesn't say, "whoever believes in Him and gets baptized." It doesn't say, "whoever believes in Him and spends years building a relationship with Him." It really doesn't say much of anything; it just says, "whoevever believes in Him."

Then you have Abraham's salvation, which is directly explained in Genesis/Romans.

Romans 4:3
For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."

Nevertheless, the Bible does clearly instruct us to live out our faith, so what do we do about that? Well, God has something to say about that too.

Romans 4:9-12 (emphasis mine)
Does this blessedness then come upon the circumcised only, or upon the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness. How then was it accounted? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised. And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also, and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of the faith which our father Abraham had while still uncircumcised.

The so-called "Sinner's Prayer" has nothing to do with salvation. It is an outward expression of an inward faith by which the one making the prayer was saved before the words of their prayer ever made it out of their mouth.

---

I am not even going to touch the "fire insurance" argument. [sarcasm]Certainly it'd be better for someone to burn in Hell than for them to convert to a religion they don't fully understand.[/sarcasm]

[nolidad]

Are the Romans road and the four spiritual laws enough for evangelism? They both seem to me to be entirely too man centered and deal very little if at all with the holy character of God. Do they overemphasize the love of God?

They are enough for the ones who need them, but they are only one of many tools for evangleism. The best way to be an evangelsit--hide the word inyour heart and the spirit can use thousands of "roads" for thousands of unique individuals to get them saved.

[Jay42]

I hosted Campus Crusade for Christ meetings for two years at Kent State, and so I witnessed many times with the Four Spiritual Laws. I ended up usually putting the booklet down and speaking more "from the heart". But not because it had a man-centered presentation (one could argue that maybe it is).

It just felt unnatural to me to be reading a tract to someone. It has, however, been a great tool for millions while evangelizing, and I'm not against someone using it, especially when they can balance it with the fuller view of God via follow-up meetings and their own personal testimony.

[Awzmgd117]

i think they can be just fine tools for sharing Christ with people, personally i think the best way is to just know the message so well you can work it in and share in a way that relates very well to them. that probably doesn't make much sense. all i'm saying is that somepeople need to know that God loves them more than anything else and that should be stressed, some people need to realize that they are sinful adn not an end in and of themselves. same message just presented slightly differeent based on the persons needs

i hear the concern you are having. but i think it relates more to what comes after salvation. if someone hears the four spiritual laws and believes on Christ as saviour then i have no doubt there saved. but alot of times the church drops the ball there, so it seems like a fire insurance decision. but how will they know what to do next unless we show them. the church needs to get its act together as far as discipleship goes adn start helping these people grow.

note i'm speaking in generalities, if your church does a great discipleship program praise God, most dont'. it truly is sad

[Mike Graham]

Are they good, or at least things like them good? Yes. And useful? Yes. And sufficient? No, the entire Bible is needed to sufficient cover everything.

Since the message delivered is less than that, much less, it is apt to be one-sided. New believers are bound to have many misconseptions about God, and much heresy. That's how it goes. The message how we deliver it should focus on these same things when most applicable.

[OneHope]

Another reason why I don't like Four Spiritual Laws is because it reduces Christianity and salvation to a simple formula. It's like a+b+c-d = salvation or something like that. If salvation could be reduced to a formula it would probably be something with multiple pages of series, algebra, integrals, derivatives, and theorems and even that would be too simple.

[Link H]

I haven't seen the Romans Road in a number of years. It's sharing Bible verses.

I don't care for the Four Spiritual Laws that much, but I think a lot of this has to do with the way they are used. I believe people can go through the motions of the track without faith and not be saved. Some naive people declare the other person saved just by going through the steps of a track outwardly. I've seen people just say sinner's prayers because they were asked or because they were in a group. The crazy thing is other people declare them saved, as if going through the ritual meant anything apart from faith.

Another concern I have about the 4 spiritual laws is the point about God havinga wonderful plan for your life. Is that true? from a calvinist perspective, if the recipient of the track is destined for hell, how is that a wonderful plan from that person's perspective? From a non-Calvinist perspective, maybe an Open View perspective, if the person continues on the track they are on, their destiny may be awful.

Has anyone heard of Brother Jed? He is this radical preacher who believes in a form of sinless perfectionism. he goes around preaching and campuses and asking the students what they believe about sins. When they confess to a sin he will point at them and call them fornicators, whores, etc. He says things like prostitutes are smarter because they get paid for it and things like that. He likes that verse, God hates all workers of iniquity.

I thought about giving him an idea for a track, "Frown God hates you" that expounds on that verse about God hating workers of iniquity, but I didn't share the idea because he might actually go through with it.

I don't care for Jed's approach, but I do think we need to focus on things that God is already revealing to people. The _wrath of God_ is revealed from heaven, Paul said. That is one thing we should talk about. Another is the fact that the Spirit convicts the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment.

While we are on the subject, why don't we discuss Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron's approach of using the 10 commandments to expose sin in a person's heart so that he will be convicted and have a motivation to desire salvation?

[bobthecockroach]

Originally Posted by OneHope

Another reason why I don't like Four Spiritual Laws is because it reduces Christianity and salvation to a simple formula. It's like a+b+c-d = salvation or something like that. If salvation could be reduced to a formula it would probably be something with multiple pages of series, algebra, integrals, derivatives, and theorems and even that would be too simple.

I disagree.

Mark 10:13-16
Then they brought little children to Him, that He might touch them; but the disciples rebuked those who brought them. But when Jesus saw it, He was greatly displeased and said to them, "Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of God. Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it." And He took them up in His arms, laid His hands on them, and blessed them.

I have not yet met a child that can do calculus, so your comparison makes no sense. The Christian life is complicated; salvation is not.

Again, Jesus' own words:

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

---

Originally Posted by Link H

Another is the fact that the Spirit convicts the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment.

Why? I mean, He does the convicting; we don't.

[OneHope]

Originally Posted by bobthecockroach

The Christian life is complicated; salvation is not.

Sorry, thats my bad. I meant that the four spiritual laws make Christian life look simple and that is not good.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Link H

While we are on the subject, why don't we discuss Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron's approach of using the 10 commandments to expose sin in a person's heart so that he will be convicted and have a motivation to desire salvation?

As A tool to reach people, I think it can be a good way to lead into the gospel.

However, I have some really big problems with Ray's "Hell's Best Kept Secret" and the update with Cameron "The Way of the Master." First off, they present it as THE WAY evangelsim is suppose to be done. They give several examples of Jesus confronting JEWS with the 10 commandements. However, their whole SECRET seems to forget Jesus telling the man on the cross that He will see him in heaven that day...and not grilling him on the 10 commandments or demanding verbal repentence. Ray almost makes a point to say that evangelism should be something like 90% law and 10% grace. He defends this mentality with an analogy (see point two). Jesus almost seemed like a tac on at the end of the whole thing.

Second, Ray openly admits to not being a Bible scholar...and this really shows in his work. He's often way to quick to defend his method with an analogy/story rather than a verse. His theology in regards to the POWER of the 10 commandments is shacky at best.

Thirdly, because of the nature of the presentation, it really is the most man-centered gospel presentation I can think of. Its all about how bad you are and how you aren't good enough. The point of the whole thing is how to get your ticket to heaven. I really don't think that should be the focus of the gospel.

Lastly, the entire thing seems rooted in finding something WE can do to get better converts. It seems to be PLAYING Holy Spirit instead of TRUSTING the Holy Spirit. The whole thing is about guilting the person into salvation.



I have lots to say on this subject because a youth leader at my church got real into Ray Comfort last summer. It turned into a bit of an ackward situation on a mission trip we were on. He started replacing material we were using with Ray Comfort tracts and he guilted several students into questioning whether they were believers (on accident).