God's Unconditional Love

Cadence · 03-02-2005, 07:01 PM

I hear a lot that God loves us unconditionally. How unconditional is God's love?

joshaber · 03-02-2005, 08:44 PM

I suppose that'd depend on the context. God's love for his elect is truly unconditional, as in there is nothing we can do that would separate us from that love (Romans 8).

Qingu · 03-02-2005, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cadence

I hear a lot that God loves us unconditionally. How unconditional is God's love?

There seems to be a rather obvious condition of "believing in Christianity." If you don't believe in Christianity, I don't see how it can be said that God loves you since he tortures you forever in hell because of it. Unless you tautologically define "love" as including "torturing forever."

KFBobInsanesMom · 03-03-2005, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qingu

There seems to be a rather obvious condition of "believing in Christianity." If you don't believe in Christianity, I don't see how it can be said that God loves you since he tortures you forever in hell because of it. Unless you tautologically define "love" as including "torturing forever."

I can love someone with all my heart but if I tell them " Don't walk in front of that train or you will get killed" and they do it anyway... they are dead, but its not because I didn't love them. It's because they didn't listen to my instructions on how not to be killed. Jesus loved you enough to come die in your place. You rejecting Him doesn't mean He doesn't love you, it means you don't love Him.

KFBobInsanesMom · 03-03-2005, 11:20 AM

God's love is so unconditional that even those who nailed Jesus to the tree were forgiven.

Nate · 03-03-2005, 11:22 AM

Funny, I never realized there were degrees of unconditionality.

mlqurgw · 03-03-2005, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KFBobInsanesMom

I can love someone with all my heart but if I tell them " Don't walk in front of that train or you will get killed" and they do it anyway... they are dead, but its not because I didn't love them. It's because they didn't listen to my instructions on how not to be killed. Jesus loved you enough to come die in your place. You rejecting Him doesn't mean He doesn't love you, it means you don't love Him.

If you have the power to keep them from walking in front of the train and still let them how is that love?

Nate · 03-03-2005, 11:35 AM

Because you walked in front of the train first to show them its destructive power.

In His love,
Nate

mlqurgw · 03-03-2005, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate

Because you walked in front of the train first to show them its destructive power.

In His love,
Nate

What of all those who He loved before Christ died?

Nate · 03-03-2005, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlqurgw

What of all those who He loved before Christ died?

Romans 4? Hebrews 11?

mlqurgw · 03-03-2005, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate

Romans 4? Hebrews 11?

I understand that Romans 4 and Hebrews 11 speak of faith but you will have to explain what how they relate to my question. I am at a loss to see it. Of course I do know my lack in clear thinking.

I am not saying that in a sarcastic way only that I know that I am severly influenced by my Calvinism.

loriborealis · 03-04-2005, 04:35 AM

Romans 11:22-23
Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

Qingu asks how God can love unconditionally and still send people to hell. It seems here that God will show love to his elect, but wrath to the reprobate.

(This verse opens up a whole new can of worms regarding who God's elect is, but for the sake of staying on topic, let's just say God's elect are those who will spend eternity with Him.)

ChrisHarbison · 03-04-2005, 04:04 PM

"Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated..."

"For God so loved the world..."

"Husbands love your wives, like Christ loves the Church..."

There's an obvious general love that God has for all creation. What is unconditional is the very intimate and specific love that God has for the Church, which is likened to the love of a husband and wife.

Qingu · 03-04-2005, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KFBobInsanesMom

I can love someone with all my heart but if I tell them " Don't walk in front of that train or you will get killed" and they do it anyway... they are dead, but its not because I didn't love them. It's because they didn't listen to my instructions on how not to be killed. Jesus loved you enough to come die in your place. You rejecting Him doesn't mean He doesn't love you, it means you don't love Him.

Dude, God is driving the train. He personally created the space and demons that will be responsible for torturing me for eternity.

You have a strange definition of love. You have kids, right? Would you say that a mother who tortures her kids when they disobey her really loves them?

exo · 03-04-2005, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qingu

Dude, God is driving the train. He personally created the space and demons that will be responsible for torturing me for eternity.

And you still didn't get out of the way.

Quote:

You have a strange definition of love. You have kids, right? Would you say that a mother who tortures her kids when they disobey her really loves them?

And you still didn't get out of the way.

The fact that God provides a 'way out' that is simple and straightforward shows that he loves us. Would it have been better for Him to just let us all be tortured forever?

I also hope that you know that discipline is loving someone. If you don't, I'd then assume that you don't have kids.