God's Unconditional Love

Luke · 03-04-2005, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cadence

I hear a lot that God loves us unconditionally. How unconditional is God's love?

For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, ³⁹nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:38-39, ESV)

Luke · 03-04-2005, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qingu

There seems to be a rather obvious condition of "believing in Christianity." If you don't believe in Christianity, I don't see how it can be said that God loves you since he tortures you forever in hell because of it. Unless you tautologically define "love" as including "torturing forever."

Certainly there is a love that God has for the entire world. God loved the world so much (and "world" in John 3:16 carries an emphasis on the sinfulness of mankind, by the way) that He sent His Son to redeem it.

That being said, He did not choose to redeem everyone, and His love for the unredeemed, while not conditional, is significantly less than his wrathful stance toward them and His just nature.

Qingu · 03-04-2005, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke

Certainly there is a love that God has for the entire world. God loved the world so much (and "world" in John 3:16 carries an emphasis on the sinfulness of mankind, by the way) that He sent His Son to redeem it.

That being said, He did not choose to redeem everyone, and His love for the unredeemed, while not conditional, is significantly less than his wrathful stance toward them and His just nature.

So basically what you're saying is that yes, God loves me, but the reason he wants to torture me forever in hell is because he just hates me significantly more than he loves me?

I guess that makes sense. Is that why serial killers torture their victims? Because they do really love them, but they just have a desire to torture them much more than they love them?

mlqurgw · 03-04-2005, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qingu

So basically what you're saying is that yes, God loves me, but the reason he wants to torture me forever in hell is because he just hates me significantly more than he loves me?

I guess that makes sense. Is that why serial killers torture their victims? Because they do really love them, but they just have a desire to torture them much more than they love them?

I am one who does not believe that God loves everyone. He saves those He loves and justly condemns the rest. As God it is His right to do as He pleases with His own.

FilltheEarth · 03-04-2005, 11:53 PM

I think unconditional love on God's part means that His heart is always willing to receive you if you will repent and turn to Him. He never gets to the point where He is like, "No, you might want to come to me but I dont want you anymore." His door is always unconditionally open, should you chose to walk through it.

However, if you choose not to walk through that door, then you don't enter into the arena of the available unconditional love and so choose His unconditional wrath instead.

Heather

mlqurgw · 03-05-2005, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FilltheEarth

I think unconditional love on God's part means that His heart is always willing to receive you if you will repent and turn to Him. He never gets to the point where He is like, "No, you might want to come to me but I dont want you anymore." His door is always unconditionally open, should you chose to walk through it.

However, if you choose not to walk through that door, then you don't enter into the arena of the available unconditional love and so choose His unconditional wrath instead.

Heather

So your'e saying that God's love is conditioned on whether we walk through the door? That is what it seems like, at least to me. I don't really believe you think this though.

Luke · 03-05-2005, 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlqurgw

I am one who does not believe that God loves everyone. He saves those He loves and justly condemns the rest. As God it is His right to do as He pleases with His own.

Surely we must confess, because the Scripture teaches, that at least in some sense, God loves everyone.

For instance, John 3:16 teaches that God loved the world. As I mentioned before, when the word "world" is used anywhere in the Gospel of John, it's always referring to the world with an emphasis on its fallenness and evil. In other words, God loved the world in all its great evil, including the condemned.

I think that you would agree with this if you considered it. It is certainly true, then, that God has a love of one sort for the fallen world and another sort of love for His redeemed.

By the way, for good reading on this topic, I recommend to all the book The Difficult Doctrine of the Love of God by D.A. Carson. It's only about 80 pages, and you'll learn a great deal.

mlqurgw · 03-05-2005, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke

Surely we must confess, because the Scripture teaches, that at least in some sense, God loves everyone.

For instance, John 3:16 teaches that God loved the world. As I mentioned before, when the word "world" is used anywhere in the Gospel of John, it's always referring to the world with an emphasis on its fallenness and evil. In other words, God loved the world in all its great evil, including the condemned.

I think that you would agree with this if you considered it. It is certainly true, then, that God has a love of one sort for the fallen world and another sort of love for His redeemed.

By the way, for good reading on this topic, I recommend to all the book The Difficult Doctrine of the Love of God by D.A. Carson. It's only about 80 pages, and you'll learn a great deal.

I honestly don't think the Scriptures teach that God loves the non-elect. I am sure you are already familiar with those passages that speak of the hate of God so I will not repost them unless you think I should. Now when I speak of God hating the non-elect I do believe it is not a malicious hatred such as we have but simply that He doesn't give them any consideration. His love is seen in redemption and in all His promises to His people. Simply lokk at how He deals with the others throughout Scripture. This is how I think God deals with Both the elect and the non-elect;
Isa 43:3 For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.
Isa 43:4 Since thou wast precious in my sight, thou hast been honourable, and I have loved thee: therefore will I give men for thee, and people for thy life.

mlqurgw · 03-05-2005, 08:45 AM

Quote:

For instance, John 3:16 teaches that God loved the world. As I mentioned before, when the word "world" is used anywhere in the Gospel of John, it's always referring to the world with an emphasis on its fallenness and evil. In other words, God loved the world in all its great evil, including the condemned.

I do think in the sesnse you are referring it is the same as when Paul says that God commends His love to us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us. I must, because of my understanding of the rest of Scripture, take the use of the word world in John to mean all tose that God has scattered throuout the world whom He loves. I believe it is clear from Scripture that God doesn't love all men. Those whom God loves He saves because it would be an affront to His character to not do so. His love is inseperable from His power and wisdom to accomplish that which He desires.
Am I making any sense?

Cadence · 03-05-2005, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlqurgw

I do think in the sesnse you are referring it is the same as when Paul says that God commends His love to us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us. I must, because of my understanding of the rest of Scripture, take the use of the word world in John to mean all tose that God has scattered throuout the world whom He loves. I believe it is clear from Scripture that God doesn't love all men. Those whom God loves He saves because it would be an affront to His character to not do so. His love is inseperable from His power and wisdom to accomplish that which He desires.
Am I making any sense?

How are you defining love here?