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Unread 02-23-2005, 11:36 PM   #76
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boy, i sure am glad my God understands English!

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Unread 02-24-2005, 01:02 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq
Deuteronomy 18:17And the LORD said to me, 'They are right in what they have spoken. 18I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers. And I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him. 19And whoever will not listen to my words that he shall speak in my name, I myself will require it of him. 20But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or[f] who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.' 21And if you say in your heart, 'How may we know the word that the LORD has not spoken?'-- 22when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him.

It is clear, the intent is irrelevant. He presumed to speak for God, and that is a serious matter. Being wrong here is presuming to speak for God, taking on the position of a man, claiming to speak not his own words, but the words of the Almighty, and that is no light thing.
Might I add this one:
Isa 8:19 And when they shall say to you, Seek to the mediums and to wizards who peep and mutter; should not a people seek to their God, than for the living to the dead?
Isa 8:20 To the Law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this Word, it is because no light is in them.
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Unread 02-24-2005, 07:39 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by exo

There have been linguistic studies done on glossalia (sp?) or 'heavenly' tongues and they found that no one was ever speaking in any sort of language.
I would like to see the evidence. Could you please cite it or give us a link? You can't say there have been studies done and not give the proof.
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Unread 02-24-2005, 11:11 AM   #79
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Blindman; I would agree that God speaks to us in all the ways you mention in the first part of your response. I would only add that He does so by His Word. He speaks to us by and in Christ.
Heb 1:1 God, who at many times and in many ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds,


Heb 4:12 For the Word of God is living and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing apart of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

As I have already said I believe that such prophesy is a miraculous gift and if it happens we should expect to hear a direct revelation from God. The Spirit speaks of Christ and glorifies Him.

oh 16:13 However, when He, the Spirit of Truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth. For He shall not speak of Himself, but whatever He hears, He shall speak. And He will announce to you things to come.
Joh 16:14 He will glorify Me, for He will receive of Mine and will announce it to you.


I agree with those who say that a prophet cannot be mistaken in his prophesy. If he is mistaken or misunderstand it is because God has not given him a revelation. When God speaks to a man it is truth.

Isa 8:20 To the Law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this Word, it is because no light is in them.

To answer you on the use of Church history, I would only say that it was a small portion of my reasons for cessation. I certainly do not place it above the Word of God.
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Unread 02-24-2005, 11:19 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlqurgw
Might I add this one:
Isa 8:19 And when they shall say to you, Seek to the mediums and to wizards who peep and mutter; should not a people seek to their God, than for the living to the dead?
Isa 8:20 To the Law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this Word, it is because no light is in them.

I don't know how this applies really. I was peeping and muttering last night because I was exhausted. But that was NOT what this verse reffers to. This is reffering to necromancy, which I have never seen any charismatic or pentacostal attempt. Heck, I don't even know of any necromancers period, and I know some people pretty deep into the occult.
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Unread 02-24-2005, 11:23 AM   #81
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Gavin said: Hmm, so let me get this straight. You agree that 1 corinthians isn't talking about the word and yet you still claim that the gifts were only for establishing the bible. That's a perfectly normal assertion, but where's scriptural backing for such an idea?
I didn't say it was for estalishing the Bible but for establishing the Church. Look at Cor. 13: 10&11
1Co 13:10 But when the perfect thing comes, then that which is in part will be caused to cease.
The word perfect in this passage can be understood as mature. I believe the context would suggest that it what it means.
1Co 13:11 When I was an infant, I spoke as an infant, I thought as an infant, I reasoned as an infant. But when I became a man, I did away with the things of an infant.
In the very next verse he shows that these things are for an infant church. and that they will cease when it becomes mature.
I think my holes were only in your mind.
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Unread 02-24-2005, 11:25 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq
I don't know how this applies really. I was peeping and muttering last night because I was exhausted. But that was NOT what this verse reffers to. This is reffering to necromancy, which I have never seen any charismatic or pentacostal attempt. Heck, I don't even know of any necromancers period, and I know some people pretty deep into the occult.
If any man speaks in the name of God he must speak according to the Word of God. If he doesn't it is because there is no light in him.
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Unread 02-24-2005, 11:32 AM   #83
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Partially Mistaken Prophets

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Originally Posted by blindman
Well, to start out with, it's rather clear that God "speaks" to us, as individuals, in a variety of ways. When the Holy Spirit convicts us of sin (Jn 16:5-8) or opens our eyes to the truth of the Gospel (2 Cor 4:4-6) or teaches us anything else (1 Jn 1:27), or even reminds us of something that has been taught previously (Jn 14:26), that is in a sense a "revelation" from God: not that God is teaching something new, but that God is applying a truth to our hearts that we didn't understand before.

I would suggest that prophecy in the New Testament is similar, except that God shows an individual something that is meant to be spoken to a different person or an entire group of people, for their edification. The prophet can be mistaken about that message in the same way that a teacher can misunderstand what the Holy Spirit is saying through Scripture, so we are called to weigh carefully a prophet's words (1 Cor 14:29). The prophet can have the right message, but the wrong interpretation of that message as well (Acts 21:10-11). A prophets sees only "a poor reflection as in a mirror" (1 Cor 13:12); "we know in part and we prophesy in part" (1 Cor 13:9), so prophesy is not infallible in the same sense that Scripture is. This requires humility on the part of the prophet and skepticism on the part of the listeners.
I would categorize this statement as an endorsement of the “partially mistaken prophecy” movement. But, does the Bible ever allow for a partially mistaken prophecy or does it always refer to the prophet who misspeaks while prophesying as being a “false prophet”?

Nowhere can it be found that a prophet of the Old Testament era through the closing of the canon in the New Testament was a “partially mistaken prophet.” Therefore, the burden of proof rests squarely on those who wish to give error-laden prophecies to find biblical justification for practicing such a thing.

As has already been pointed out, there are passages in Deuteronomy that call for a death sentence on any prophet who speaks even one word that God “did not command him to speak.”

Why death? Because God cannot lie. A prophet speaks for God (the Holy Spirit is God). One who prophesies error is calling God a liar while also claiming he is God’s messenger. Death sentence. Remember the married couple who lied to the Holy Spirit about the property they sold. Death sentence.

How tolerant should we be of false prophets (prophets who speak falsely)? A death sentence was a fairly low level of tolerance. In lieu of not having a death sentence available today, I would suggest that the partially mistaken prophet be forbidden from ever again “prophesying” and requiring him to apologize and repent publicly to all he gave his prophecies to. If he does not repent, put him out of the church.
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Unread 02-24-2005, 11:35 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq
I don't know how this applies really. I was peeping and muttering last night because I was exhausted. But that was NOT what this verse reffers to. This is reffering to necromancy, which I have never seen any charismatic or pentacostal attempt. Heck, I don't even know of any necromancers period, and I know some people pretty deep into the occult.
Even Wiccans don't attempt that nor do gyspy or native american medicine men.

Nercomancy is is what that verse is talking about and I am with Bill it isn't practiced in any form today.
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Unread 02-24-2005, 11:38 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gracie Love
Even Wiccans don't attempt that nor do gyspy or native american medicine men.

Nercomancy is is what that verse is talking about and I am with Bill it isn't practiced in any form today.

ehhh, Id disagree. In some areas of the world it is practiced, and a seance is actually a form of necromancy. (just fairly mild in comparison to some other forms)
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Unread 02-24-2005, 11:42 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq
ehhh, Id disagree. In some areas of the world it is practiced, and a seance is actually a form of necromancy. (just fairly mild in comparison to some other forms)

Really where? I wasn't aware of it. necromancy was a Symarian thing and I wasn't aware of any where that they still had the traditions of the Symarian and Assymarian religion. I read the Symarian Book of the Dead. I studied it in high school. Because of that I was actually labeled a witch. SO I then decided to study wiccan.
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Unread 02-24-2005, 11:42 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gracie Love
Even Wiccans don't attempt that nor do gyspy or native american medicine men.

Nercomancy is is what that verse is talking about and I am with Bill it isn't practiced in any form today.
So you think it applies only to necromancers?
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Unread 02-24-2005, 11:46 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gracie Love
Really where? I wasn't aware of it. necromancy was a Symarian thing and I wasn't aware of any where that they still had the traditions of the Symarian and Assymarian religion. I read the Symarian Book of the Dead. I studied it in high school. Because of that I was actually labeled a witch. SO I then decided to study wiccan.

Animistic societies. Necromancy is merely attempting to contact the dead by raising their spirits or bodies.

But in Papua Ancestral Spirits are worshipped and contacted frequently in tribal religions. Id attribute it to demonic influence, but it exists.
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Unread 02-24-2005, 11:47 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by mlqurgw
So you think it applies only to necromancers?

The verse is talking about necromancers specifically, however, the one I mentioned reffered to prophets.
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Unread 02-24-2005, 11:47 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlqurgw
I didn't say it was for estalishing the Bible but for establishing the Church. Look at Cor. 13: 10&11
1Co 13:10 But when the perfect thing comes, then that which is in part will be caused to cease.
The word perfect in this passage can be understood as mature. I believe the context would suggest that it what it means.
1Co 13:11 When I was an infant, I spoke as an infant, I thought as an infant, I reasoned as an infant. But when I became a man, I did away with the things of an infant.
In the very next verse he shows that these things are for an infant church. and that they will cease when it becomes mature.
I think my holes were only in your mind.
1Cr 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
1Cr 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.


Gavin pointed this out to me earlier in the thread.

I agree with him that it does seem to point to the Bible is not the perfect because you can not come face to face with the Bible. The Perfect is Jesus and to my knowledge he hasn't come back yet. Has he?
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