[Blindman]

Originally Posted by Sean

I'd be amazed if you could support that with scripture.

"Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven–for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little" (Lk 7:47). To have sinned and been forgiven is better than to have never sinned in the sense that, until we are aware of our great need for a Savior, we can never grasp the depths of His love and the power of His grace. Anyone who has lived a pure life can so easily fall into the trap of spiritual pride. If you've lived a good life, it's so easy to believe that your own good works will save you - and the moment you do, you miss out on the salvation God offers.

As Christians we should never rejoice in sin, but our sin is an opportunity to receive healing from the Great Physician, and in that sense... Lord, let me be more broken! Let me be weaker! Let me be more needy, so that I may experience more of Your grace! Let the sickness of sin bear me down to the point where You are my only hope!

"Where sin increased, grace increased all the more" (Rom 5:20).

"It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance" (Lk 5:31-32).

The truth is, none of us will enter heaven with our purity intact. None of us are free from the blemish of sin. So instead of trusting our own purity, we should be rejoicing in the righteousness imputed to us by Christ, despite our undeserving!

[Blindman]

Originally Posted by my_glorious

I definitely agree with what you say about second virginity.
I made some big mistakes, but now I am on the right track.
I know I am forgiven, but it still doesn't seem like all the pain
has gone. I grieved when I looked at the forums,when alot
people say they haven't even so much as kissed someone.
I used to be one of them. Now I don't even know who I am.
I think to myself, why? Was it really worth it? To be pure your
whole life and mess it up? I didn't just do it once,either...
I really could use some encouragement. Now it's even harder
to live pure when you've been on the other side. It's like an
addiction.

Well, here's my advice as someone who has gone farther than he should have (and only refused to go farther in order to preserve his self-righteousness and pride):

1. If you're in a relationship now with someone who is encouraging you into sinful behavior, consider ending that relationship or at least putting it on hold.

2. To lose your purity in exchange for also losing your self-righteousness is not too shabby a deal. If rather than trying to fix or make up for your sin you instead receive the amazing truth that God loves you no less after all you've done, this will drive you closer to God instead of drawing you away.

3. You had built an identity for yourself based on pride, built around your self-image as a righteous person. Now that's shattered, and rather than trying to build that false identity again, receive your true identity as a beloved daughter of God! You are of no lesser value to Him now than you were before you made this mistake.

4. The pain you feel is not guilt, if you've repented. It's shame. It's not the pain of having offended God - that has been forgiven - but the fear of what others will think of you. The more you embrace God's forgiveness, and the more you become convinced of His love for you, the less power that shame will have.

5. Like the prodigal son, you now have a chance to grasp the love of God in a way that the elder brother could not. True Christianity exists _only_ where there is a deeply felt need for God. If instead of becoming discouraged, looking at your sin drives you to seek Him more earnestly, you will gain a deeper relationship with Him than you might ever have had if you had never fallen.

6. That "addiction" will lose its power as you grow closer to God. As you find pleasure and joy and delight and fulfillment in Him, you will feel less of a need to seek pleasure and affirmation in other ways. Serving Him out of duty - the way you tried to keep from falling before - isn't enough; learn to rejoice in His love for you, and that joy will become your strength to resist temptation.

[marvinranch]

To lose your purity in exchange for also losing your self-righteousness is not too shabby a deal. If rather than trying to fix or make up for your sin you instead receive the amazing truth that God loves you no less after all you've done, this will drive you closer to God instead of drawing you away.

and THAT is why "secondary virginity" is really better to me than the "real thing"

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Blindman

"Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven–for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little" (Lk 7:47). To have sinned and been forgiven is better than to have never sinned in the sense that, until we are aware of our great need for a Savior, we can never grasp the depths of His love and the power of His grace. Anyone who has lived a pure life can so easily fall into the trap of spiritual pride. If you've lived a good life, it's so easy to believe that your own good works will save you - and the moment you do, you miss out on the salvation God offers.

As Christians we should never rejoice in sin, but our sin is an opportunity to receive healing from the Great Physician, and in that sense... Lord, let me be more broken! Let me be weaker! Let me be more needy, so that I may experience more of Your grace! Let the sickness of sin bear me down to the point where You are my only hope!

"Where sin increased, grace increased all the more" (Rom 5:20).

"It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance" (Lk 5:31-32).

The truth is, none of us will enter heaven with our purity intact. None of us are free from the blemish of sin. So instead of trusting our own purity, we should be rejoicing in the righteousness imputed to us by Christ, despite our undeserving!

...and lets not forget what comes right after Romans 5:20...

Romans 6
Dead to Sin, Alive to God
1What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?


It isn't better to have more sin on your record so that grace might abound. Of course, we're all unpure. Of course, self-righteouness is impurity itself. You need to lose your self-righteness...you also need to be sexual pure. You don't have to lose your virginity to lose your self-righteness.

[my_glorious]

Originally Posted by Blindman

Well, here's my advice as someone who has gone farther than he should have (and only refused to go farther in order to preserve his self-righteousness and pride):

1. If you're in a relationship now with someone who is encouraging you into sinful behavior, consider ending that relationship or at least putting it on hold.

2. To lose your purity in exchange for also losing your self-righteousness is not too shabby a deal. If rather than trying to fix or make up for your sin you instead receive the amazing truth that God loves you no less after all you've done, this will drive you closer to God instead of drawing you away.

3. You had built an identity for yourself based on pride, built around your self-image as a righteous person. Now that's shattered, and rather than trying to build that false identity again, receive your true identity as a beloved daughter of God! You are of no lesser value to Him now than you were before you made this mistake.

4. The pain you feel is not guilt, if you've repented. It's shame. It's not the pain of having offended God - that has been forgiven - but the fear of what others will think of you. The more you embrace God's forgiveness, and the more you become convinced of His love for you, the less power that shame will have.

5. Like the prodigal son, you now have a chance to grasp the love of God in a way that the elder brother could not. True Christianity exists _only_ where there is a deeply felt need for God. If instead of becoming discouraged, looking at your sin drives you to seek Him more earnestly, you will gain a deeper relationship with Him than you might ever have had if you had never fallen.

6. That "addiction" will lose its power as you grow closer to God. As you find pleasure and joy and delight and fulfillment in Him, you will feel less of a need to seek pleasure and affirmation in other ways. Serving Him out of duty - the way you tried to keep from falling before - isn't enough; learn to rejoice in His love for you, and that joy will become your strength to resist temptation.

Thanks! That really helped...I am not sure if my identity was pride, though

[my_glorious]

Originally Posted by Sean

I think part of your problem is that you're equating purity with not having sex. Purity is far more than virginity. Instead of beating yourself up over one area of sin, you should notice all your other areas of sin. Loss of virginity is just one area of fault in life. You need grace to cover all areas of sin in your life.

I understand that purity is not just not having sex.
God does not "compartmentalize" your life, saying :
"this person is righteous in this area, oohh and she is
not in this one!" He doesn't do that. I also know that
His grace covers me completely. Sometimes my emotions
run away with me. Then, I think back to how my Father
really thinks of me. I am still praying for this bond that
was created to be broken. It's kind of like an oppression.

[marvinranch]

Originally Posted by my_glorious

Thanks! That really helped...I am not sure if my identity was pride, though

Then you "identity" shouldn't be in anything earthly because everything here is subject to change and failure at any moment

[Blindman]

Originally Posted by Sean

You don't have to lose your virginity to lose your self-righteness.

Certainly not. And as Christians, we have no excuse for sinning. But I've found that it _is_ true that unsaved "sinners" have a much easier time coming to Christ than unsaved pharisees. Coming to Christ means first recognizing our need for a Savior, then receiving Christ as Savior, and in that sense people who have sinned too deeply to be able to view themselves as anything but sinners are a step _ahead_ of people who have lived pure lives through their own strength. That's why the "tax collectors and sinners" enter the Kingdom ahead of everyone else.

Plus, personally, I find unsaved "Christians" to be a much greater tragedy than unsaved atheists. The emptiness of a life powered by pride and self-righteousness, driven by determination and self-discipline, is horrible. I lived that way for years: a model Christian on the outside, living a very moral life and very active in my church, but a total stranger to God. And at the time, I didn't even realize it; I thought that I was everything a Christian was meant to be. I rejoice to see "sinners" entering into the grace of God and discovering true joy and life in Him, because it shocks cultural Christians into the realization that they don't know God in the same way.

[Blindman]

Originally Posted by my_glorious

Thanks! That really helped...I am not sure if my identity was pride, though

Maybe I phrased that badly. You said, "I used to be one of them. Now I don't even know who I am." If you don't know who you are now, it's because your identity used to be based in being able to see yourself as a "good Christian." And the reason you thought you were a good Christian was because you had lived a moral life. That's all I mean by "pride" - thinking that you were pure in God's eyes because of what you had done, not what He has done.

The amazing thing is, if you have faith in Christ, you _are_ completely pure and faultless in His eyes. It isn't just that He sees your sin but loves you anyways; if your sin has been borne by Christ, God sees nothing but Christ's righteousness when He looks at you. He doesn't look at you and see an ugly sinner but love you anyways because that's what He's supposed to do: He looks at you and sees His pure and beautiful daughter and delights in you (Zeph 3:17).

[my_glorious]

Originally Posted by Blindman

Maybe I phrased that badly. You said, "I used to be one of them. Now I don't even know who I am." If you don't know who you are now, it's because your identity used to be based in being able to see yourself as a "good Christian." And the reason you thought you were a good Christian was because you had lived a moral life. That's all I mean by "pride" - thinking that you were pure in God's eyes because of what you had done, not what He has done.

The amazing thing is, if you have faith in Christ, you _are_ completely pure and faultless in His eyes. It isn't just that He sees your sin but loves you anyways; if your sin has been borne by Christ, God sees nothing but Christ's righteousness when He looks at you. He doesn't look at you and see an ugly sinner but love you anyways because that's what He's supposed to do: He looks at you and sees His pure and beautiful daughter and delights in you (Zeph 3:17).

I completely agree with you. You are are right about the "moral life" thing.
Thanks for shedding some light into what you were trying to say. I understand
it alot better now.