[OneHope]

I'm not really sure where this goes so mods please move it if it doesn't belong here.

As of late, I have noticed that a lot of people (not on this site but in real life) believe in this idea that all religions are equal in truth and it is intolerant and hateful to believe that one religion is more true than another. Also, the idea that everybody has to find their own god, a god that works for them.

I call this "The Tashlan Effect" after the idea in C.S. Lewis' "The Last Battle" that Aslan and Tash are one.

Basically, my question is how do you respond to these people?

[Blindman]

Originally Posted by OneHope

Basically, my question is how do you respond to these people?

Well, I would start by pointing out that they are not living by their own beliefs, because they themselves subscribe to the religion of "tolerance" and relativism, and reject anyone who believes otherwise. They've created their own religion, where tolerance is the chief virtue, and the only sin is to believe in absolutes... but they themselves believe in the one absolute that nothing is absolute.

Besides that, the most effective thing to do is to live out the difference between Christianity and all other religions - and to speak about that difference as well. Christianity is unique. All other religions teach that we need to do something to win God's love or approval, or to make ourselves better people; Christianity teaches that we are already loved and approved by God, and invites us to live differently in the power of that knowledge. In all other religions, salvation is the goal, the end of faith; in Christianity, it is the beginning; we are saved before we have done anything to deserve salvation.

To a Christian, weakness and neediness and dependence on God are not faults that we need to overcome, but virtues to be cultivated. To a Christian, self-help and self-improvement are recognized as self-righteousness; sin management, rather than being a way to please God, is a form of pride. Consciousness of our failures and sinfulness is more important for Christian maturity than attempts to make ourselves better.

And as Christians, we have a joy and peace and love in Jesus Christ that is no illusion or delusion, that gives us the strength to persevere through the worst trials and through the most ordinary days. And we have a God Who is not distant, but personal and real to us, a constant presence in our lives. And in Him we have found a love that makes the unlovable lovely and the worthless worthy.

[Pennypacker11]

Originally Posted by Blindman

Well, I would start by pointing out that they are not living by their own beliefs, because they themselves subscribe to the religion of "tolerance" and relativism, and reject anyone who believes otherwise. They've created their own religion, where tolerance is the chief virtue, and the only sin is to believe in absolutes... but they themselves believe in the one absolute that nothing is absolute.

Right on. I think this is a good place to start out. They have simply made an idol of tolerance and relativism.

[saywhat?]

Originally Posted by Blindman

Well, I would start by pointing out that they are not living by their own beliefs, because they themselves subscribe to the religion of "tolerance" and relativism, and reject anyone who believes otherwise.

where in this do you find that these persons "reject anyone who believes otherwise"? would they not be accepting and open to other's beliefs due to their belief in tolerance and relativism?

[Pennypacker11]

where in this do you find that these persons "reject anyone who believes otherwise"? would they not be accepting and open to other's beliefs due to their belief in tolerance and relativism?

Thats just the thing, usually these people are not tolerant of those who claim absolute truth and deny relativism. Furthermore, when they try to convince people of relativism, they are showing that they believe relativism is more true than other beliefs, which makes their relativism inconsistent.

[Blindman]

Originally Posted by saywhat?

where in this do you find that these persons "reject anyone who believes otherwise"? would they not be accepting and open to other's beliefs due to their belief in tolerance and relativism?

In theory, yes. In practice, people who idolize tolerance are intolerant of anyone who doesn't, and people who advocate relativism hold their relativism to be an absolute truth. People who are "accepting and open" towards religions in general are generally judgemental and closed-minded when encountering any religion in particular.

I have yet to meet a single relativist who has any desire to actually understand my faith; relativists are more interested in picking and choosing what they like out of religion, squeezing everyone into their own box that they have created, and ignoring anyone who doesn't fit. For example, a person who is convinced that religion is all about being a good person will listen to whatever I have to say about morality, but ignore (or even object to) anything I say about where the Christian's strength to live a moral life comes from. An existentialist who believes that fulfillment comes from having some sort of mystic Experience will listen to my experience of God but then try to re-frame it in his own perspective...

[saywhat?]

Originally Posted by Blindman

In theory, yes. In practice, people who idolize tolerance are intolerant of anyone who doesn't, and people who advocate relativism hold their relativism to be an absolute truth. People who are "accepting and open" towards religions in general are generally judgemental and closed-minded when encountering any religion in particular.

I have yet to meet a single relativist who has any desire to actually understand my faith; relativists are more interested in picking and choosing what they like out of religion, squeezing everyone into their own box that they have created, and ignoring anyone who doesn't fit. For example, a person who is convinced that religion is all about being a good person will listen to whatever I have to say about morality, but ignore (or even object to) anything I say about where the Christian's strength to live a moral life comes from. An existentialist who believes that fulfillment comes from having some sort of mystic Experience will listen to my experience of God but then try to re-frame it in his own perspective...

but isn't the point of relativism to pick and choose what is relevent to them out of religion. why would they have to or try to understand your faith? they can be tolerant but still not have to understand what it is that you believe.

[Blindman]

Originally Posted by saywhat?

but isn't the point of relativism to pick and choose what is relevent to them out of religion. why would they have to or try to understand your faith? they can be tolerant but still not have to understand what it is that you believe.

Yeah, I guess that's the point. A relativist doesn't value anyone else's faith or experiences but his own. He is "tolerant" toward all religions only in the sense that he takes an equally condescending view towards them, and doesn't bother with getting upset about the beliefs of another simply because he doesn't see any value in those beliefs.

The problem is that such a person will still see his "tolerance" as a virtue, instead of the prideful (or apathetic) fault that it is. The other problem is that such a person will assert, with supreme self-confidence, that all religions are the same - without making any attempt to gain more than a surface-level understanding of those religions.

[saywhat?]

Originally Posted by Blindman

Yeah, I guess that's the point. A relativist doesn't value anyone else's faith or experiences but his own. He is "tolerant" toward all religions only in the sense that he takes an equally condescending view towards them, and doesn't bother with getting upset about the beliefs of another simply because he doesn't see any value in those beliefs.

The problem is that such a person will still see his "tolerance" as a virtue, instead of the prideful (or apathetic) fault that it is. The other problem is that such a person will assert, with supreme self-confidence, that all religions are the same - without making any attempt to gain more than a surface-level understanding of those religions.

it seems to be an assumption that this type person would have this negative of a view on other religions. i would think that a relativist would by nature of his/her belief system would think that all religions were the same because said religions belonged to the individuals that prescribed to the beliefs of that religion and the relativists "tolerance" would see that other person's religion as equal without needing deeper investigation.

[Blindman]

Originally Posted by saywhat?

i would think that a relativist would by nature of his/her belief system would think that all religions were the same because said religions belonged to the individuals that prescribed to the beliefs of that religion and the relativists "tolerance" would see that other person's religion as equal without needing deeper investigation.

And you don't think that seeing all religions as equally uninteresting and irrelevant is a negative attitude? You don't think that an unwillingness to attempt to understand the faith of others is a negative attitude?

[saywhat?]

Originally Posted by Blindman

And you don't think that seeing all religions as equally uninteresting and irrelevant is a negative attitude? You don't think that an unwillingness to attempt to understand the faith of others is a negative attitude?

to a relativist maybe not.

[ICTHUS]

Originally Posted by OneHope

Basically, my question is how do you respond to these people?

They are wrong. The Holy Gospel is an offensive doctrine - and we are the stench of death to those who are perishing, the Scriptures tell us.

2 Cor 2:14-17

14But thanks be to God, who always leads us in triumphal procession in Christ and through us spreads everywhere the fragrance of the knowledge of him. 15For we are to God the aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing. 16To the one we are the smell of death; to the other, the fragrance of life. And who is equal to such a task? 17Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit. On the contrary, in Christ we speak before God with sincerity, like men sent from God.

Also, one need only to look at the objective, contradictory truth claims in other religions to know that they must be mutually contradictory. For instance, the Qu'ran claims thus

"And when Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto mankind: Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah? he saith: Be glorified! It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right. If I used to say it, then Thou knewest it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy mind. Lo! Thou, only Thou art the Knower of Things Hidden. I spake unto them only that which Thou commandedst me, (saying): Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. I was a witness of them while I dwelt among them, and when Thou tookest me Thou wast the Watcher over them. Thou art Witness over all things" (Surah 5:116-117)

Praise be to Allah Who hath revealed the Scripture unto His slave…to give warning of stern punishment from Him…and to warn those who say: Allah hath chosen a son, (A thing) whereof they have no knowledge, nor (had) their fathers. Dreadful is the word that cometh out of their mouths. They speak naught but a lie (Surah 18:1-5).

And they say: The Beneficent hath taken unto Himself a son. Assuredly ye utter a disastrous thing, whereby almost the heavens are torn, and the earth is split asunder and the mountains fall in ruins, that ye ascribe unto the Beneficent a son, when it is not meet for (the Majesty of) the Beneficent that He should choose a son. There is none in the heavens and the earth but cometh unto the Beneficient as a slave (Surah 19:88-93).

Allah hath not chosen any son, nor is there any God along with Him; else would each God have assuredly championed that which he created, and some of them would assuredly have overcome others. Glorified be Allah above all that they allege (Surah 23:91).

He unto Whom belongeth the sovereignty of the heavens and the earth, He hath chosen no son nor hath He any partner in the sovereignty. He hath created everything and hath meted out for it a measure (Surah 25:2).

[saywhat?]

Originally Posted by ICTHUS

They are wrong. The Holy Gospel is an offensive doctrine - and we are the stench of death to those who are perishing, the Scriptures tell us.

so how does one respond to them?

[ICTHUS]

Originally Posted by saywhat?

so how does one respond to them?

READ, Man!

Originally Posted by Previously, I said

Also, one need only to look at the objective, contradictory truth claims in other religions to know that they must be mutually contradictory. For instance, the Qu'ran claims thus

[saywhat?]

Originally Posted by ICTHUS

READ, Man!

after a second reading of your initial post i understand you to respond to a person which onehope described by telling them they are wrong, quoting scpriture and then presenting them with contradictory words from the qu'ran. is this correct?