[Nate]

Originally Posted by Amanda

Lovely way to honor the people God's put in authority over you.

I don't have to like them to submit to their authority.

[+Donny]

You have to respect them, which means not accusing them of anything unless you know it to be true. I don't know if they applies to your comment, though.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by +Donny

You have to respect them, which means not accusing them of anything unless you know it to be true. I don't know if they applies to your comment, though.

See the problem with Christianity? It forces one to respect Bush.

[Dice]

You have to respect them, which means not accusing them of anything unless you know it to be true. I don't know if they applies to your comment, though.

Who says their position in office automaticaly means they deserve that sort of respect and honor?

The greek word used there is "phobos" which is a fearful respect, not esteemed, so it is a respect of their authority to judge wrong actions. And then the greek word for honor here is "time (tee-may)", which has the root meaning to value something by it's true worth. So honor is not due them for their position alone, but for the reasons that the previous verses gave--to commend what is good, to do you good, to avenge evil, to fully devote themselves to this service. Those are the reasons given to honor them, and so one should honor them as the honor is due. This means to not honor them for something wrong, especially in a democracy where it is the duty of the citizens to elect leaders who uphold the law and make sure they do. Our leaders run for office under agreement of the law for our right to protest if they aren't doing their job right, it would not be honorable to support them in everything, even things that are wrong.

Proverbs
16:12It is an abomination to kings to do evil,
for the throne is established by righteousness.
16:13Righteous lips are the delight of a king,
and he loves him who speaks what is right.

17:15He who justifies the wicked and he who condemns the righteous
are both alike an abomination to the LORD.

18:5It is not good to be partial to the wicked
or to deprive the righteous of justice.

20:28Steadfast love and faithfulness preserve the king,
and by steadfast love his throne is upheld.

23:22Do not rob the poor, because he is poor,
or crush the afflicted at the gate,
23:23for the LORD will plead their cause
and rob of life those who rob them.

24:23These also are sayings of the wise.
Partiality in judging is not good.
24:24Whoever says to the wicked, "You are in the right,"
will be cursed by peoples, abhorred by nations,
24:25but those who rebuke the wicked will have delight,
and a good blessing will come upon them.

28:23Whoever rebukes a man will afterward find more favor
than he who flatters with his tongue.

29:4By justice a king builds up the land,
but he who exacts gifts tears it down.

31:8Open your mouth for the mute,
for the rights of all who are destitute.
31:9Open your mouth, judge righteously,
defend the rights of the poor and needy.

Jeremiah 22
13"Woe to him who builds his house by unrighteousness, and his upper rooms by injustice,
who makes his neighbor serve him for nothing and does not give him his wages,
14who says, 'I will build myself a great house with spacious upper rooms,'
who cuts out windows for it, paneling it with cedar and painting it with vermilion.
15Do you think you are a king because you compete in cedar?
Did not your father eat and drink and do justice and righteousness?
Then it was well with him. 16He judged the cause of the poor and needy;
then it was well. Is not this to know me? declares the LORD.
17But you have eyes and heart only for your dishonest gain,
for shedding innocent blood, and for practicing oppression and violence."
18Therefore thus says the LORD concerning Jehoiakim the son of Josiah, king of Judah:
"They shall not lament for him, saying, 'Ah, my brother!' or 'Ah, sister!'
They shall not lament for him, saying, 'Ah, lord!' or 'Ah, his majesty!'
19With the burial of a donkey he shall be buried, dragged and dumped beyond the gates of Jerusalem."

[+Donny]

Who says their position in office automaticaly means they deserve that sort of respect and honor?

Well, we are clearly ordered to respect family and church leaders, so it makes sense. Furthermore, I think David's example with Saul is pretty telling, as well as Romans 13.

The greek word used there is "phobos" which is a fearful respect, not esteemed, so it is a respect of their authority to judge wrong actions. And then the greek word for honor here is "time (tee-may)", which has the root meaning to value something by it's true worth. So honor is not due them for their position alone, but for the reasons that the previous verses gave--to commend what is good, to do you good, to avenge evil, to fully devote themselves to this service. Those are the reasons given to honor them, and so one should honor them as the honor is due. This means to not honor them for something wrong, especially in a democracy where it is the duty of the citizens to elect leaders who uphold the law and make sure they do. Our leaders run for office under agreement of the law for our right to protest if they aren't doing their job right, it would not be honorable to support them in everything, even things that are wrong.

I agree. I only meant that we should respect them in that we should not accuse them of things maliciously. Don't bring a charge against the ministers of God unless you are right.

[+Donny]

See the problem with Christianity? It forces one to respect Bush.

I would prefer respecting Bush to eternal flames of hell, but, hey, that's just me.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by +Donny

I would prefer respecting Bush to eternal flames of hell, but, hey, that's just me.

Bah, you people and your hell.

By the way, I will be answering your PM tonight almost for certain. It was too late when I finally had the chance to do it last night/this morning.

[jfahler03]

Personally, I believe that asking why I didn't vote Constitution is like asking why I didn't vote Communist or some other extreme. I could go on about how I think the fed. government should be run (in relation to the best source: American history); but frankly I'll be wasting my time and it'll take too long. :-)

[Danny]

Originally Posted by jfahler03

Personally, I believe that asking why I didn't vote Constitution is like asking why I didn't vote Communist or some other extreme. I could go on about how I think the fed. government should be run (in relation to the best source: American history); but frankly I'll be wasting my time and it'll take too long.

I'd be interested in hearing your opinions.