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View Poll Results: Can we drink by the Bible's standards?
Yes 85 84.16%
No 12 11.88%
I'm not sure? 4 3.96%
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Unread 12-26-2004, 10:10 PM   #1
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Drinking

So what do you think?
By the Bibles standards, do you think we can drink?
I have my own opinion, but I'll wait till someone else responds to state mine.

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Unread 12-26-2004, 10:15 PM   #2
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Yes, in fact Jesus turned water into wine for his friends!
But we cant get drunk. That is forbiden.
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Unread 12-26-2004, 10:18 PM   #3
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Here is the problem with that.
In the Bible most of the wine they talk aout is grape juice.
If you study it, thats what this was also!
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Unread 12-26-2004, 11:05 PM   #4
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...wine is made from grapes...
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Unread 12-27-2004, 12:02 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatherladd
Here is the problem with that.
In the Bible most of the wine they talk aout is grape juice.
If you study it, thats what this was also!
I realize that I do not attend a Pentacostal church anymore and that this forum is for issues relating to the Pentacostal denominations, but I hope you guys don't mind me throwing in a few words.

In my experience, what you say is quite indefensible. For one, before the pasteurization process, it is my understanding that as soon as you pressed grape juice, it would start fermenting. Juice would have to be extremely fresh not to be at all alcoholic.

Also, the text doesn't make sense in that light. For example, in the Cana story, the headwaiter tells the groom, "Every man serves the good wine first, and when the people have drunk freely, then he serves the poorer wine; but you have kept the good wine until now." This seems to be implying that the wine at first would affect people's judgement.

Or when Jesus is confronted by some leaders in Luke 7? He says, "For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, `He has a demon!' The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, `Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!'" Clearly He is drinking wine that is associated with being a drunkard, though He is neither a drunkard or a glutton.

And of the parable of the wineskins? Why would the skins expand other than the gasses from fermentation? Yet that is the very kingdom of God talked about.

Or what about the numerous warnings not to get drunk with wine, like in Ephesians 5:18? That must be alcoholic wine.
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Unread 12-27-2004, 12:38 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatherladd
Here is the problem with that.
In the Bible most of the wine they talk aout is grape juice.
If you study it, thats what this was also!
1 When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard them speaking in his own language. 7 Utterly amazed, they asked: "Are not all these men who are speaking Galileans? 8 Then how is it that each of us hears them in his own native language? 9 Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome 11(both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs-we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!" 12 Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, "What does this mean?"

13 Some, however, made fun of them and said, "They have had too much wine."

14 Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: "Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say. 15 These men are not drunk, as you suppose. It's only nine in the morning! 16 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
NIVActs 2:1-16 NIV


This verse, and the ones mentioned above, prove that fermented grape juice, or wine, really was around back then and still made people drunk. If, as you say, some of the wine really was grape juice, then there really is no way to tell when Biblical people were drinking wine or grape juice, is there?
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Unread 12-27-2004, 12:46 AM   #7
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John 2:10
He said, `Other people give the good wine at the beginning of the feast. When people have had all they want, then they give the wine which is not so good. But you have kept the good wine until now.'

When I was in israel and I had wine offered to me at a restaraunt, I declined because I don't drink alcohol, but the waiter told me it was "the good wine". I got confused and asked him what he meant and he went on to explain that "the good wine" is a non alcoholic wine. Bible also makes several mentions

Galatians 5:19-21
19The things your sinful old self wants to do are: sex sins, sinful desires, wild living, 20worshiping false gods, witchcraft, hating, fighting, being jealous, being angry, arguing, dividing into little groups and thinking the other groups are wrong, false teaching, 21wanting something someone else has, killing other people, using strong drink, wild parties, and all things like these. I told you before and I am telling you again that those who do these things will have no place in the holy nation of God.

Proverbs 20:1
Wine is a mocker and beer a brawler; whoever is led astray by them is not wise.

Proverbs 23:29-32
29 Who has woe? Who has sorrow? Who has strife? Who has complaints? Who has needless bruises? Who has bloodshot eyes? 30 Those who linger over wine,who go to sample bowls of mixed wine. 31 Do not gaze at wine when it is red, when it sparkles in the cup, when it goes down smoothly!32 In the end it bites like a snake and poisons like a viper.

Enough reason there for me.

*edit*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Graham
"Every man serves the good wine first, and when the people have drunk freely, then he serves the poorer wine; but you have kept the good wine until now." This seems to be implying that the wine at first would affect people's judgement.
I see in other translations my good wine "fact" doesn't work for that verse..heh
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Unread 12-27-2004, 02:01 AM   #8
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those are good enough reasons for me also. i am not here to say if drinking is a sin or not, or to tell someone that they should or should not be doing it. i would like to encourage those who are to really pray and think about this issue. number one, it's not good for your body. number two, it hurts your witness. and number three, it can become a faithful friend to comfort, relax, and fill holes in your inner and sub-concious self. if u have a tendency to be depressed u might feel the need for its comfort more often and then before u know it, u might be drinking before class or work, or when the party is over. it could even lead u to try the comfort of other friends such as meth. and others. ganted all this plus three DUIs is me before turning to the Lord, but even after i stopped for a while, i started using the bible and its wine references as a defense and an excuse for me to visit my friend again. oh i was miserable! u know, i could fuction in any situation and people couldn't tell i had been drinking. at this point i had turned to mainly vodka because of the lack of smell detection. i would not be drunk, and of course the bible was my defense. it says, to not be drunk! i would say. i would stay a little steady buzzed thats all. i don't know anyone who drinks without the intentions of feeling at least a good buzz. if there is some out there, i want to ask, why? whats the point? taste, ok sure i know this post might be too long, so i will stop. this subject concerns me alot about the way people might view it. i will leave that between them and God. i believe there are christians who drink and those who don't. for me personally, i don't.

i would love to help anyone who might have questions or just want to talk about this, please feel free to pm me. god bless.
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Unread 12-27-2004, 02:37 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldoghair
number one, it's not good for your body. number two, it hurts your witness. and number three, it can become a faithful friend to comfort, relax, and fill holes in your inner and sub-concious self.
number one is kinda false. An occaisional glass of wine has been proven to be healthy for the heart. But no more healthy than other mdeications. number 2 and 3 are very excelent points. A lot of "unsaved" people think that christians shouldn't drink.
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Unread 12-27-2004, 04:13 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatherladd
Here is the problem with that.
In the Bible most of the wine they talk aout is grape juice.
If you study it, thats what this was also!
Since you've obviously studied this... prove it. I think Jesus drank alcohol. I think he turned water into alcohol. I think I can drink alcohol.
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Unread 12-27-2004, 09:22 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldoghair
those are good enough reasons for me also. i am not here to say if drinking is a sin or not, or to tell someone that they should or should not be doing it. i would like to encourage those who are to really pray and think about this issue. number one, it's not good for your body. number two, it hurts your witness. and number three, it can become a faithful friend to comfort, relax, and fill holes in your inner and sub-concious self. if u have a tendency to be depressed u might feel the need for its comfort more often and then before u know it, u might be drinking before class or work, or when the party is over. it could even lead u to try the comfort of other friends such as meth. and others. ganted all this plus three DUIs is me before turning to the Lord, but even after i stopped for a while, i started using the bible and its wine references as a defense and an excuse for me to visit my friend again. oh i was miserable! u know, i could fuction in any situation and people couldn't tell i had been drinking. at this point i had turned to mainly vodka because of the lack of smell detection. i would not be drunk, and of course the bible was my defense. it says, to not be drunk! i would say. i would stay a little steady buzzed thats all. i don't know anyone who drinks without the intentions of feeling at least a good buzz. if there is some out there, i want to ask, why? whats the point? taste, ok sure i know this post might be too long, so i will stop. this subject concerns me alot about the way people might view it. i will leave that between them and God. i believe there are christians who drink and those who don't. for me personally, i don't.

i would love to help anyone who might have questions or just want to talk about this, please feel free to pm me. god bless.

i think that you make some valid points... BUT - the Bible never forbids drinking... as long as it is in moderation. there are cases when one should not drink, such as underage drinking... or if one feels convicted to not drink. there isn't anything wrong with that... and can get rid of a lot of problems if alcohol is avoided.
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Unread 12-27-2004, 12:41 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tht00
i think that you make some valid points... BUT - the Bible never forbids drinking... as long as it is in moderation. there are cases when one should not drink, such as underage drinking... or if one feels convicted to not drink. there isn't anything wrong with that... and can get rid of a lot of problems if alcohol is avoided.
the Bible may not forbid drinking but it does forbid drunkeness.
And like Bulldoghair said after awhile it will get ahold of you.
As for when Jesus turned the water into wine and and it was good wine.
Have you ever drunken so much grape juice that your tingue starts to tingle?
well this is what it is talking about.
After they had drinken(sp?) the good wine they were given wine not so good but no one could tell because they were a littletaken over by the good wine.
There is a difference between alchol and wine.
they are two very different things even though you can get drunk off of both.
Wine takes a lot longer to get you drunk.
And in the Bible it was grape juice that they speak of when they say wine.
A very strong grape juice mind you but grape juice none the same.
However, I'm not sure where its at, but when God got mad at the people and told noah to build an ark, he did it because the people were drunken, but I don't believe it says wine.
however I'd have to llok at that.

*EDIT*
I take that back it does not say drunkedness at all in the situation with Noah.
I will have to study further to reply better.

Last edited by Fatherladd; 12-27-2004 at 12:44 PM. Reason: Needed to fix something!
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Unread 12-27-2004, 02:06 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tht00
i think that you make some valid points... BUT - the Bible never forbids drinking... as long as it is in moderation. there are cases when one should not drink, such as underage drinking... or if one feels convicted to not drink. there isn't anything wrong with that... and can get rid of a lot of problems if alcohol is avoided.
Galatians 5:19-21
19The things your sinful old self wants to do are: sex sins, sinful desires, wild living, 20worshiping false gods, witchcraft, hating, fighting, being jealous, being angry, arguing, dividing into little groups and thinking the other groups are wrong, false teaching, 21wanting something someone else has, killing other people, using strong drink, wild parties, and all things like these. I told you before and I am telling you again that those who do these things will have no place in the holy nation of God.

would this not be forbiding? or am I reading it wrong
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Unread 12-27-2004, 11:06 PM   #14
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just a quick question.
What Bible is that?
Mine has a little different wording.=)
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Unread 12-28-2004, 09:37 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jesusfreak86ca
Galatians 5:19-21
19The things your sinful old self wants to do are: sex sins, sinful desires, wild living, 20worshiping false gods, witchcraft, hating, fighting, being jealous, being angry, arguing, dividing into little groups and thinking the other groups are wrong, false teaching, 21wanting something someone else has, killing other people, using strong drink, wild parties, and all things like these. I told you before and I am telling you again that those who do these things will have no place in the holy nation of God.

would this not be forbiding? or am I reading it wrong
What version are you using?
Every version I looked at says drunkeness, not using strong drink.
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