Jesus as a social liberal

saywhat? · 10-27-2004, 12:22 PM

Taking a look at the life of Jesus I find him socially liberal, in today's definition and application of the word liberal. This is taken in the understanding that Jesus was not a capitalist. So take and discuss if you like this topic. For or against is cool. Also, how do you feel Jesus' social stance, however you interpret it to be, should affect your vote in this or any election. Thanks.

Mike Graham · 10-27-2004, 12:36 PM

I don't seem to remember the incarnate Christ talking much about political social issues, nor economic issues (which capitalism is more often specifically classified.) In the rest of His revealed Word (where these things are more addressed), I see little support of government-instituted liberal social and economic policies (with perhaps a few exceptions.)

BurntHombre · 10-27-2004, 12:37 PM

First I'd like to know what you mean by "social liberal."

Benny Hicks · 10-27-2004, 12:40 PM

Jesus placed significant emphasis on personal accountability, stewardship, and financial wisdom. I do not believe that he would have supported a system whereby his followers would have limited potential to exercise any of these.

I also would be interested in hearing your definition of "socially liberal."

Ben

saywhat? · 10-27-2004, 12:46 PM

Jesus advocated for the poor, the homeless, the sick (spiritually and physically) etc. He did this in telling those who have to give to those who do not. He went as far as to equate our service to those in need to our service to Him. The issues of welfare, healthcare, wages, are considered liberal issues. These are the things democrats say they want to sponsor with government. This is how I would describe Jesus as a social liberal. And how I could see it affecting votes.

Benny Hicks · 10-27-2004, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saywhat?

Jesus advocated for the poor, the homeless, the sick (spiritually and physically) etc. He did this in telling those who have to give to those who do not. He went as far as to equate our service to those in need to our service to Him.

Correct.

Quote:

Originally Posted by saywhat?

The issues of welfare, healthcare, wages, are considered liberal issues.

I disagree completely. There is no such thing as a "liberal" or a "conservative" issue. There are simply different opinions on how to deal with a given issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by saywhat?

These are the things democrats say they want to sponsor with government.

Whereas Jesus taught that the Church, individually and as an institution, ought to care for the lost in society. Nowhere did Jesus teach that the civil government should force its citizens to care for the poor, the lost, etc., nor did Jesus teach that anyone should be forced by other people into doing this.

Ben

saywhat? · 10-27-2004, 01:45 PM

[QUOTE=Benny Hicks]Correct.

I disagree completely. There is no such thing as a "liberal" or a "conservative" issue. There are simply different opinions on how to deal with a given issue.

I understand that. I meant that the democrats want to use governments to directly give to the poor, etc. through welfare and such programs. The republicans have a reverse type welfare. They want to give tax breaks to businesses so that they can hire more workers. In their minds this will decrease the poverty level.

Whereas Jesus taught that the Church, individually and as an institution, ought to care for the lost in society. Nowhere did Jesus teach that the civil government should force its citizens to care for the poor, the lost, etc., nor did Jesus teach that anyone should be forced by other people into doing this.

Like I said in the opening post, I see Jesus in this light understanding that He was not a capitalist. My point in starting this thread is to see where people stand in light of the candidates throwing around their faith on particular issues. I should have elaborated a bit in the opening post. If they want to apply faith in one area of government why not all. That meaning, why not apply Jesus' teaching of personal responsibility to government. It is difficult for me to see how they can apply faith to issues such as abortion and not do the same to issues like the death penalty, welfare, etc.

Benny Hicks · 10-27-2004, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saywhat?

Like I said in the opening post, I see Jesus in this light understanding that He was not a capitalist.

Ok, I don't understand your point here, but I don't think it's significant so don't worry about it. I'm pretty just a little slow

Quote:

Originally Posted by saywhat?

That meaning, why not apply Jesus' teaching of personal responsibility to government.

By "personal responsibility," I'm assuming you mean the responsibility to care for the poor. If this is the case, my response is simply because Jesus taught that it is the Church's responsibility. By asking why we shouldn't make it the government's responsibility, your are asking, "Why not change what Jesus said?"

Quote:

Originally Posted by saywhat?

It is difficult for me to see how they can apply faith to issues such as abortion and not do the same to issues like the death penalty, welfare, etc.

By "faith," do you mean what the Bible teaches? If the Bible teaches that caring for the poor is the Church's responsibility, then how is it not applying faith to not make it the government's responsibility?

Ben

saywhat? · 10-27-2004, 02:10 PM

[QUOTE=Benny Hicks]Ok, I don't understand your point here, but I don't think it's significant so don't worry about it. I'm pretty just a little slow

By "personal responsibility," I'm assuming you mean the responsibility to care for the poor. If this is the case, my response is simply because Jesus taught that it is the Church's responsibility. By asking why we shouldn't make it the government's responsibility, your are asking, "Why not change what Jesus said?"

By "faith," do you mean what the Bible teaches? If the Bible teaches that caring for the poor is the Church's responsibility, then how is it not applying faith to not make it the government's responsibility?

What I am wanting to here from people is how they can apply faith to their politics in one area and not another. I would assume faith to be biblical teaching. I am not saying that not making these issues government's responsibility is a lack of faith. Jesus also did not teach, as far as I know, that any political system has a right to enforce a pro choice or pro life stance. Again He was speaking to believers and the church. But we apply that to our vote. Where I feel government comes in to the teachings of Jesus is when the government controls things such as the minimum wage. On this issue the church is unable to control that as well as regulated housing prices. Even "affordable" housing in America is out of reach for a person holding a single, minimum wage job. Not to mention that people like you and me would never consider living in such a place because so many of them are so dilapidated we would not consider it suitable.

saywhat? · 10-27-2004, 02:12 PM

On this issue the church is unable to control that as well as regulated housing prices.

Sorry, I meant unregulated housing prices.

Benny Hicks · 10-27-2004, 02:13 PM

Can you more clearly state the purpose of this thread, because I now have no idea what you are looking for.

Ben

saywhat? · 10-27-2004, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benny Hicks

Can you more clearly state the purpose of this thread, because I now have no idea what you are looking for.

Ben

I think that the original purpose is not attainable now that I see that it would be a constant battle of definitions and understandings. Sorry to confuse anyone. I will try to figure out how to explain the purpose out in a more concise way. How ambiguous my thoughts can be!