[ChaletPol]

I was wondering if any Roman Catholics on this thread could clarify their sacramentology for me-- actually, if anyone can tell me what is the thing signified in baptism, that would be equally helpful, as I am not altogether certain that I am correct here. Following is a post I made in a thread on imputation and infusion.

Originally Posted by In the other thread, I

(Note: In regard to the terms "saved," "justified," and "sanctified," please see my post on salvation by works, linked through my signature.)


Actually, maybe you could clarify something for me. As I understand it, Roman Catholic soteriology does not distinguish between justification (dikaivwsiß/dikaiosis) and sanctification (agiasmoß/hagiasmos). I'm not altogether sure this is true; I'm basing this largely on a conversation (or debate, if you like) I had with a Roman Catholic friend of mine. I don't think he actually stated that this is the case; it is likely that I merely deduced it from what he did say. Nevertheless, it does seem to flow logically from the whole concept of infused justification. ...or it flows logically into the whole concept of infused justification, depending on how you look at it.

I ask this because Reformed soteriology (on which I am more qualified to comment) makes a very important distinction between the two, which my friend did not seem to find Biblical. Reformed soteriology stipulates that justification is imputational, but sanctification is infused; further, that one is not justified apart from also being sanctified, although this is not an indicator of dependency.

[27] Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. [28] For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. [29] Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, [30] since God is one. He will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. [31] Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.
[1] What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? [2] For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. [3] For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness." [4] Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. [5] And to the one who does not work but trusts him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, [6] just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:

[7] "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,

and whose sins are covered;

[8] blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin."

Romans 3:27-4:8 (ESV)

This passage satisfies my desire for unambiguous scriptural support of imputational justification, most specifically in verse twenty-eight of chapter three and six through eight of four. The former comes right out and says it: one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. Now, Jacob (as well as others, I'm sure; this is my Roman Catholic friend-- whose father, by the way, is a Baptist minister with reformed leanings and refers to his son as a "Romanizer"... it's rather interesting having theological discussions between the two of them, myself, and my own father) has argued with me that "law" here refers to the Old Testament ceremonial law; hence, Paul is saying that God justifies apart from obedience to the ceremonial law, not apart from the moral law. I've wavered briefly on this a couple times now, one of them as looked at the text just now, but I'm pretty confident that that is not what Paul is saying here. In the immediate context, it does seem at first to be a viable option; Paul does go on to speak of a difference between Jews and Gentiles (Or is he God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also?) that could be due to the ceremonial law, since both have the moral law written on their hearts. He even proceeds to speak of Abraham's circumcision, and whether that played a part in his justification. However, in the larger context, I submit that it is not the ceremonial law that is in view, but the moral law:

[20] For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

Romans 3:20 (ESV)

I suppose that one might argue that the ceremonial law gives a knowledge of the cost of sin as it is seen through the ritual sacrifices. I'm not going to take the time to think of how to respond to that right now, since I think I'm largely only debating with myself (why, I don't know), but consider:

...[21] you then who teach others, do you not teach yourself? While you preach against stealing, do you steal? [22] You who say that one must not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? [23] You who boast in the law dishonor God by breaking the law.

Romans 2:21-23 (ESV)

From the context, what would they be teaching and/or preaching but the moral law? In verses seventeen and eighteen, both part of this same sentence, he says if you call yourself a Jew and rely on the law (emphasis mine) and [you] know his will and approve what is excellent, because you are instructed from the law (emphasis mine). The law upon which some were relying for their justification was not merely ceremonial, but moral. In fact, the more I think about this, the more it is evident to me that the whole issue of Abraham's justification preceding his circumcision has to do with circumcision's symbolism. Just as baptism symbolizes the washing away of the sinful nature, so, too, circumcision symbolized the cutting away of the sinful nature. This is point is all the more salient in Roman Catholic sacrementology, where the sacrament of baptism (and, at least it would seem to logically follow, in circumcision) is both the sign and the thing signified. Therefore, baptism (and again, it would seem circumcision) is both a sign of sanctification and the thing signified, the actual act of sanctification. Wow... For the sake of time, I'm going to let the record of my self-debate trail off here, because I think you can all follow this logic the rest of the way through to my conclusion: for one, Roman Catholic sacramentology and soteriology are contradictory.

[25] For circumcision indeed is of value if you obey the law, but if you break the law, your circumcision becomes uncircumcision.

Romans 2:25 (ESV)

Indeed, what good is a symbol without the reality? If we are to be justified in our sanctification, we must actually be sanctified, not merely have the symbol of sanctification. Am I making sense here? If not, split me another thread, mods; I'm interested in discussing this, although my reasoning does have great application in this thread.

Anyway, the ultimate conclusion of this reasoning is that justification cannot be infused (or dependent upon our sanctification); rather, it is imputed.

Sanctification, on the other hand, is infused. God does indeed make us holy, and when we stand before Him on judgment day, perhaps we will already be glorified (the end, or goal, of sanctification). Part of that to which Rome objected in the Reformation was the possibility that they foresaw (and very rightly so) of a lack of sanctification (or, to put it another way, growth into Christian maturity), or at least a perceived lack of a need for it, among those who believed that their justification depended solely upon the grace of God revealed through faith. The reformers were careful to guard their theology with concepts like saving faith must be a fides viva, a living faith (or a faith that works, ala James 2). Over time, however, as Rome predicted, the so-called "evangelical" movement, now perhaps more rightly called protestant, has fallen into the thinking of "As long as I am in Christ, I'm okay." This is true, insofar as it goes, but the assumption is that one has Jesus no matter what, rather than having Paul's thinking: that one who is in Christ necessarily is being sanctified (see Colossians chapter one; I might come back and talk about this later, but it's getting late, and I need sleep), and therefore should not be in sin. Hence, while sin is not a prohibitor of justification, it is a counter-indicator, if you know what I mean.

Sorry, I might not be making much sense at this point. I will probably come back and edit this some later. Hope this is helpful in some way. I do have a thought on Romans 7's "body of death," but that will have to wait.

[Robbi]

Ryan, Goldenchild, kepha?
One of the above will prob answer you shortly.

I have to admit as a RC I got completely lost in all that, but would definately like to learn more. Exactly what is soteriology? (others are ...im new to all this!)

[ICTHUS]

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church

I. What Is this Sacrament Called?


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This sacrament is called Baptism, after the central rite by which it is carried out: to baptize (Greek baptizein) means to "plunge" or "immerse"; the "plunge" into the water symbolizes the catechumen's burial into Christ's death, from which he rises up by resurrection with him, as "a new creature."6


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I. What Is this Sacrament Called?


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This sacrament is called Baptism, after the central rite by which it is carried out: to baptize (Greek baptizein) means to "plunge" or "immerse"; the "plunge" into the water symbolizes the catechumen's burial into Christ's death, from which he rises up by resurrection with him, as "a new creature."6


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This sacrament is also called "the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit," for it signifies and actually brings about the birth of water and the Spirit without which no one "can enter the kingdom of God."7

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"This bath is called enlightenment, because those who receive this [catechetical] instruction are enlightened in their understanding. . . ."8 Having received in Baptism the Word, "the true light that enlightens every man," the person baptized has been "enlightened," he becomes a "son of light," indeed, he becomes "light" himself:9


Baptism is God's most beautiful and magnificent gift. . . .We call it gift, grace, anointing, enlightenment, garment of immortality, bath of rebirth, seal, and most precious gift. It is called gift because it is conferred on those who bring nothing of their own; grace since it is given even to the guilty; Baptism because sin is buried in the water; anointing for it is priestly and royal as are those who are anointed; enlightenment because it radiates light; clothing since it veils our shame; bath because it washes; and seal as it is our guard and the sign of God's Lordship.10

II. Baptism in the Economy of Salvation

Prefigurations of Baptism in the Old Covenant


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In the liturgy of the Easter Vigil, during the blessing of the baptismal water, the Church solemnly commemorates the great events in salvation history that already prefigured the mystery of Baptism:


Father, you give us grace through sacramental signs,
which tell us of the wonders of your unseen power.

In Baptism we use your gift of water,
which you have made a rich symbol
of the grace you give us in this sacrament.11


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Since the beginning of the world, water, so humble and wonderful a creature, has been the source of life and fruitfulness. Sacred Scripture sees it as "overshadowed" by the Spirit of God:12


At the very dawn of creation
your Spirit breathed on the waters,
making them the wellspring of all holiness.13


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The Church has seen in Noah's ark a prefiguring of salvation by Baptism, for by it "a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water":14


The waters of the great flood
you made a sign of the waters of Baptism,
that make an end of sin and a new beginning of goodness.15


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If water springing up from the earth symbolizes life, the water of the sea is a symbol of death and so can represent the mystery of the cross. By this symbolism Baptism signifies communion with Christ's death.


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But above all, the crossing of the Red Sea, literally the liberation of Israel from the slavery of Egypt, announces the liberation wrought by Baptism:


You freed the children of Abraham from the slavery of Pharaoh,
bringing them dry-shod through the waters of the Red Sea,
to be an image of the people set free in Baptism.16


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Finally, Baptism is prefigured in the crossing of the Jordan River by which the People of God received the gift of the land promised to Abraham's descendants, an image of eternal life. The promise of this blessed inheritance is fulfilled in the New Covenant.
Christ's Baptism


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All the Old Covenant prefigurations find their fulfillment in Christ Jesus. He begins his public life after having himself baptized by St. John the Baptist in the Jordan.17 After his resurrection Christ gives this mission to his apostles: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you."18


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Our Lord voluntarily submitted himself to the baptism of St. John, intended for sinners, in order to "fulfill all righteousness."19 Jesus' gesture is a manifestation of his self-emptying.20 The Spirit who had hovered over the waters of the first creation descended then on the Christ as a prelude of the new creation, and the Father revealed Jesus as his "beloved Son."21


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In his Passover Christ opened to all men the fountain of Baptism. He had already spoken of his Passion, which he was about to suffer in Jerusalem, as a "Baptism" with which he had to be baptized.22 The blood and water that flowed from the pierced side of the crucified Jesus are types of Baptism and the Eucharist, the sacraments of new life.23 From then on, it is possible "to be born of water and the Spirit"24 in order to enter the Kingdom of God.


See where you are baptized, see where Baptism comes from, if not from the cross of Christ, from his death. There is the whole mystery: he died for you. In him you are redeemed, in him you are saved.25
Baptism in the Church


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From the very day of Pentecost the Church has celebrated and administered holy Baptism. Indeed St. Peter declares to the crowd astounded by his preaching: "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."26 The apostles and their collaborators offer Baptism to anyone who believed in Jesus: Jews, the God-fearing, pagans.27 Always, Baptism is seen as connected with faith: "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household," St. Paul declared to his jailer in Philippi. And the narrative continues, the jailer "was baptized at once, with all his family."28


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According to the Apostle Paul, the believer enters through Baptism into communion with Christ's death, is buried with him, and rises with him:


Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.29
The baptized have "put on Christ."30 Through the Holy Spirit, Baptism is a bath that purifies, justifies, and sanctifies.31


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Hence Baptism is a bath of water in which the "imperishable seed" of the Word of God produces its life-giving effect.32 St. Augustine says of Baptism: "The word is brought to the material element, and it becomes a sacrament."33

Footnotes are:

1. 2 Cor 5:17; Gal 6:15; cf. Rom 6:3-4; Col 2:12.
2. Titus 3:5; Jn 3:5.
3. St. Justin, Apol. 1, 61, 12: PG 6, 421.
4. Jn 1:9; 1 Thess 5:5; Heb 10:32; Eph 5:8.
5. St. Gregory of Nazianzus, Oratio 40, 3-4: PG 36, 361C.
6. Roman Missal, Easter Vigil 42: Blessing of Water.
7. Cf. Gen 1:2.
8. Roman Missal, Easter Vigil 42: Blessing of Water.
9. 1 Pet 3:20.
10. Roman Missal, Easter Vigil 42: Blessing of Water.
11. Roman Missal, Easter Vigil 42: Blessing of Water: "Abrahae filios per mare Rubrum sicco vestigio transire fecisti, ut plebs, a Pharaonis servitute liberata, populum baptizatorum præfiguraret."
12. Cf. Mt 3:13.
13. Mt 28:19-20; cf. Mk 16:15-16.
14. Mt 3:15.
15. Cf. Phil 2:7.
16. Mt 3:16-17.
17. Mk 10:38; cf. Lk 12:50.
18. Cf. Jn 19:34; 1 Jn 5:6-8.
19. Cf. Jn 3:5.
20. St. Ambrose, De sacr. 2, 2, 6: PL 16, 444; cf. Jn 3:5.
21. Acts 2:38.
22. Cf. Acts 2:41; 8:12-13; 10:48; 16:15.
23. Acts 16:31-33.
24. Rom 6:3-4; cf. Col 2:12.
25. Gal 3:27.
26. Cf. 1 Cor 6:11; 12:13.
27. 1 Pet 1:23; cf. Eph 5:26.
28. St. Augustine, In Jo. ev. 80, 3: PL 35, 1840.