Harry Potter and the Bible

upperground · 09-30-2004, 09:02 AM

I have a book and it describes how those books have influenced the world, many preachers have accepted these books as just fun books, the book says that the withcraft portrayed in that book is real most of it any way, but post your thoughts I want to know. If you know spanish I suggest you look for this book it's called Harry Potter y la Biblia

**+Donny** · 09-30-2004, 09:26 AM

I have read Harry Potter and the Bible by Richard Abanes, if that is what you are referring to.
All it showed was that you need to watch out letting your seven year old read it. It's up to you or your parents whether you read the series and you think you can handle it without trying to become a witch. I read some of the books and I know enough people have read them far more religiously (

) than I and, to my knowledge, they haven't been throwing too many spells around, at least lately.

Heck, I used to be fairly into the Dragonlance series and I never attacked anyone with a sword or tried to fry someone with a chain lightning spell.

ReformedYokel · 09-30-2004, 09:28 AM

What's the difference from Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings? LOTR is (for the most part) accepted by Christians simply because Tolkien is a Christian. Both stories have magic. What is the difference?

Qingu · 09-30-2004, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upperground

I have a book and it describes how those books have influenced the world, many preachers have accepted these books as just fun books, the book says that the withcraft portrayed in that book is real most of it any way, but post your thoughts I want to know. If you know spanish I suggest you look for this book it's called Harry Potter y la Biblia

The witchcraft described in the Bible does not refer to shooting green lightning bolts out of wands, which is what most of Harry Potter magic is about.

Biblical witchcraft almost positively refers to some form of animism (historically very widespread), related to shamanism, where the witch/sorcerer supposedly channels spirits of nature.

"Magic" in Harry Potter comes in several forms. Most of it involves Charms, Jinxes, Curses and Transfiguration (turning stuff into other stuff). These types are characterized by shooting lights out ofyour wands. It has absolutely no basis in real "magic" and is entirely fictional, mostly derived, I imagine, from Disney movies and fairy tales.

There are two other types of Harry Potter magic that one might interpret as Biblical "witchcraft" -- diviniation (astrology) and potions (alchemy).

Astrology and alchemy are "real" forms of "magic" -- not because they actually work (of course they don't), but because they have been widely practiced by people who believe they do work. In fact, they are inter-related; astrology derives meaning and prophecies by looking to the motions of the stars and the 7 celestial bodies (the sun, moon and 5 planets). Alchemy is chiefly concerned with the properties of the seven metals -- gold, silver, mercury, copper, iron, tin and lead -- which were believed to have been created by the light from the 7 celestial bodies.

The Bible does not appear to view astrology as witchcraft. The three magi, after all, were astrologers, likely from Persia. Astrology is treated more as a tentative proto-science than as something unholy and contrary to God. So Divination in Harry Potter (which the books say doesn't even work most ofthe time) does not appear to be unbiblical.

It appears that alchemy is not even dealt with in the Bible, which makes sense because it appears later historically (with Hermes Trismegistus' mystery cult circa 300, if I recall). I don't see any way how Harry Potter's Potions could therefore be unbiblical (aside from the Philosopher's Stone, "Potions" aren't even concerned with real alchemical principles, just stuff like eyes of newt, dragon scale brew, etc ... obvious high fantasy).

So no, there is no real witchcraft (animism) in Harry Potter. There is no real alchemy either, and divination is Biblically okay within limits.

goldenchild · 09-30-2004, 10:11 AM

I don't like the books. But I haven't studied them to say that they are bad. I know very good Catholics that like and read them. I'm just not comfortable with it, probably because my mom was into the whole witchcraft thing when she was younger(Now a very strong Catholic).

Qingu · 09-30-2004, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goldenchild

I don't like the books. But I haven't studied them to say that they are bad. I know very good Catholics that like and read them. I'm just not comfortable with it, probably because my mom was into the whole witchcraft thing when she was younger(Now a very strong Catholic).

I can understand Christians not liking them, not because they promote witchcraft but because they promote questioning of authority, and -- if my theories aobut Lord Voldemort are correct -- moral ambiguity.

goldenchild · 09-30-2004, 10:31 AM

Yeah, that stuff too. Some people see it as good literature. I just think I can do without it. I don't think it's very good writing either, personally.

Qingu · 09-30-2004, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goldenchild

Yeah, that stuff too. Some people see it as good literature. I just think I can do without it. I don't think it's very good writing either, personally.

You should try His Dark Materials. There's some fine anti-Christian writing for you.

**+Donny** · 09-30-2004, 11:10 AM

Quote:

What's the difference from Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings? LOTR is (for the most part) accepted by Christians simply because Tolkien is a Christian. Both stories have magic. What is the difference?

To be fair, there is a different. Tolkien's magic was more like technology, while Potter magic is more mystical.

I also picked up a strange looking Wiccan sort of book that I need to read sometime, though it scares the crap out of me. I forgot the title.

ReformedYokel · 09-30-2004, 11:14 AM

Not all parts of Tolkien's magic was technology, though yes, much of his was. I still see little difference between the two, however.

Insane Drummer · 09-30-2004, 11:21 AM

"What's the difference from Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings? LOTR is (for the most part) accepted by Christians simply because Tolkien is a Christian. Both stories have magic. What is the difference?"

The main reason for this from most Christians is (as I understand), A. Tolkien himself was a Christian, B. his books are not geared toward children. HP has a school to learn witchcraft and wizardy, Tolkien has magical beings and racial 'magical' powers (think elvish). Also HP magic is cheesy, Tolkien's isn't so it must be ok.

**+Donny** · 09-30-2004, 11:22 AM

How is there only little different? Tolkien didnt like to use the word magic to describe it and it was described by the elves in more technological terms. Humans calling it magic sounds more like tribal africans calling a refridgerator magic.
This is definitely not true in the Harry Potter series. I am rusty on it since it has been a while since I read it, but wasn't magic some sort of forcelike ability you were born with? It was a power that was manifested in certain ways like, as Qingu said, transfigurations, curses, divination, etc. It is a mystical force the characters use to alter realty, tell the future, and many other things through incantations and spell ingredients, reminiscient of, say, Dungeons and Dragons. Really the whole philosophy behind magic in Harry Potter is much different.

Of course, I wouldn't say it's bad to read the books, I just don't think it's fair to totally equate it with LOTR.

Oh, and LOTR is better.

**Ted Logan** · 09-30-2004, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReformedYokel

What's the difference from Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings? LOTR is (for the most part) accepted by Christians simply because Tolkien is a Christian. Both stories have magic. What is the difference?

Tolkien was a Roman Catholic; I believe Rowling is Presbyterian. I haven't heard anything on the subject, but it's certainly possible that Rowling's theology is more biblical than Tolkien's.

**+Donny** · 09-30-2004, 12:20 PM

I think the issue is more how "Christian" their writings are rather than their personal theologies, though I have heard of the whole "Rowling is a witch" crap.

Qingu · 09-30-2004, 12:27 PM

Gandalf had Harry Potter-esque magic (light from staff, blue lightning swords, etc).

Also, what about Tolkien's polytheist mythology that parades as monotheism under the guise of Iluvatar? Have any of you read the Silmarillion?

LOTR is way more Dungeons and Dragons-like, whatever that means.