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Unread 09-24-2004, 10:13 PM   #61
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Unread 10-17-2004, 03:26 PM   #62
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This whole thread is straining at gnats
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Unread 10-17-2004, 03:39 PM   #63
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You're a month late and playing copy cat.
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Unread 10-17-2004, 08:46 PM   #64
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Hey guys.. I thought I'd just offer my interpretation of the song Above All . I never had issues with this song before and maybe I am just seeing it differently (and incorrectly?).

Anyway, the verse talks about Jesus being above all things such as powers, thrones, kings etc. This is supported by the fact that it says "You were here before world began", and "there's no way to measure what you're worth"? So the verse is talking about Jesus himself right? or wrong?

And as for the last line "Above all", I always took this to be a separate statement to "you thought of me". So the way I understand is that "You took the fall, and you thought of me. Above all", meaning that the writer wanted to emphasis one last time that Jesus is above all things?

Let me know what you think?
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Unread 10-17-2004, 08:52 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5L.
Hey guys.. I thought I'd just offer my interpretation of the song Above All . I never had issues with this song before and maybe I am just seeing it differently (and incorrectly?).

Anyway, the verse talks about Jesus being above all things such as powers, thrones, kings etc. This is supported by the fact that it says "You were here before world began", and "there's no way to measure what you're worth"? So the verse is talking about Jesus himself right? or wrong?

And as for the last line "Above all", I always took this to be a separate statement to "you thought of me". So the way I understand is that "You took the fall, and you thought of me. Above all", meaning that the writer wanted to emphasis one last time that Jesus is above all things?

Let me know what you think?
That could be right, but honestly, I don't see how you could pull that from the lyrics themselves. The phrase "above all" really doesn't make sense as a stand alone statement unless that is what you're calling Jesus. But even that wouldn't make that much sense. So, you can interpret it the way you're refering, but I don't think the lyrics themself really call for it.
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Unread 10-17-2004, 09:30 PM   #66
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Either way, as Tony says, it doesn't pass the muppet test.
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Unread 10-19-2004, 08:50 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5L.
Hey guys.. I thought I'd just offer my interpretation of the song Above All . I never had issues with this song before and maybe I am just seeing it differently (and incorrectly?).

Anyway, the verse talks about Jesus being above all things such as powers, thrones, kings etc. This is supported by the fact that it says "You were here before world began", and "there's no way to measure what you're worth"? So the verse is talking about Jesus himself right? or wrong?

And as for the last line "Above all", I always took this to be a separate statement to "you thought of me". So the way I understand is that "You took the fall, and you thought of me. Above all", meaning that the writer wanted to emphasis one last time that Jesus is above all things?

Let me know what you think?
With all due respect, I think you are pulling the song to fit your own definition. "Above all" at the end of the song is very obviously not a complete, separate statement from what's before. You don't tell your wife how lovely she is and then after talking about something more specific, then go on to say "lovely" out of nowhere? It would seem very strange to have "above all" in the middle of nowhere with the music not at all implying a new thought meaning a separate thing from "and thought of me". Just my two cents.
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Unread 10-19-2004, 11:10 PM   #68
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You're a month late and playing copy cat.
He's right though.
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That's why Jesus would use a 5-10 watt tube combo. Then Jesus can get that nice breakup He likes at a manageable volume. A volume that is somewhat formal but still says I'm here to party. Much like tuxedo t-shirt Jesus.
"If all experienced God in the same way and returned Him an identical worship, the song of the Church triumphant would have no symphony, it would be like an orchestra in which all the instruments played the same note." - C.S. Lewis
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Unread 10-20-2004, 08:03 AM   #69
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since when does poetry have to be grammatically correct?

for that matter, who made up the rule that theological songs can't have metaphors, or even extended metaphors? who says they can't be a little abstract, to get the message across? songwriters aren't trying to be grammatically correct, nor are they worried that someone might be out there picking theological problems out of their abstractions and metaphors. what they ARE doing is trying to get their messages out, and trying to express their feelings.

i could understand why you would have a problem if the song said "Elijah is alive today"...but the song says "these are the days of Elijah", which is metaphorical. If you want to be "theologically correct", you might say "these days are like the days of Elijah, in that we are declaring the word of the Lord". Then, of course, you can go ahead and say that people from the dawn of Christianity have been declaring the word of the Lord, and change it to "these days are like the days of Elijah, in that we are declaring the word of the Lord more than we have for many years, as Elijah declared the word of the Lord more than it had been declared for many years".

These songs are poetry, not sermons.
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Unread 10-20-2004, 08:44 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agrimes87
since when does poetry have to be grammatically correct?
It doesn't?

Quote:
for that matter, who made up the rule that theological songs can't have metaphors, or even extended metaphors? who says they can't be a little abstract, to get the message across? songwriters aren't trying to be grammatically correct, nor are they worried that someone might be out there picking theological problems out of their abstractions and metaphors. what they ARE doing is trying to get their messages out, and trying to express their feelings.
Can you point me to the post where someone said that figurative language is forbiden?

Quote:
i could understand why you would have a problem if the song said "Elijah is alive today"...but the song says "these are the days of Elijah", which is metaphorical. If you want to be "theologically correct", you might say "these days are like the days of Elijah, in that we are declaring the word of the Lord". Then, of course, you can go ahead and say that people from the dawn of Christianity have been declaring the word of the Lord, and change it to "these days are like the days of Elijah, in that we are declaring the word of the Lord more than we have for many years, as Elijah declared the word of the Lord more than it had been declared for many years".
Well, I would be more inclinded to dislike "Days of Elijah" for being childish and pointless rather than the fact that its theologically ackward. Its like singing Father Abraham for anything other than just having a good time, it doesn't make much sense.

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These songs are poetry, not sermons.
Poetry that makes theological statements. Those statements must be true for the worship to be in "Spirit AND TRUTH."
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Unread 10-21-2004, 05:49 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean
It doesn't?
poetry is a form of expression, and you just can't limit poetry with 'correct grammar'. if you've read much poetry, or songs, you see that the vast majority of poetry is far from grammatically correct. actually, i would say that poetry expresses itself best when it defies correct grammar.


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Originally Posted by Sean
Can you point me to the post where someone said that figurative language is forbiden?
not in those exact words, but for one:
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Originally Posted by anippard1987
Did David rebuild the temple? NO! i don't think so! Wasn't David specifically told by God that he was not allowed to build the temple? YES! It was Solomon who rebuilt the temple of praise... this one always makes me angry
not picking on this guy or anything, but that's an example of taking figurative language literally, which naturally happens a lot when someone's trying their best to find theological problems with a song, which is essentially poetry, and poetry is notorious for figurative language. that's why i'm very skeptical of literal criticism of figurative language.

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Originally Posted by Sean
Well, I would be more inclinded to dislike "Days of Elijah" for being childish and pointless rather than the fact that its theologically ackward. Its like singing Father Abraham for anything other than just having a good time, it doesn't make much sense.
this i would agree with. i've always wondered why on earth we would sing it in congregational worship. except that, when you think about it, it's all figurative, and makes perfect sense when you understand the metaphors. unfortunately, they aren't exactly metaphors that the everyday person is going to understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean
Poetry that makes theological statements. Those statements must be true for the worship to be in "Spirit AND TRUTH."
but they probably aren't going to be true in a literal sense, if it's figurative. that's where the conflict begins.

i'm not condemning the idea of criticizing worship music. actually, i'm all for it, and i do it often. but you can't just go out and criticize every song for being literally incorrect, if it's figurative.

i'm not pointing fingers, or placing blame....i'm just posting my general observation that this happens often.


off this topic slightly, when i looked back for an example of literal criticism of figurative language, i found this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean
I have no problem with my churching doing "Above All." However, I'm very greatful they change the last line of the chorus to "Lord of all" instead of "above all."
no offence (this has nothing to do with the previous topic), but isn't that illegal? i could be wrong, but i would have assumed that unless the songwriter gave you permission to do that, then it would be illegal.

like i said, no offence Sean. I'm not picking on you or anything, it's just something I noticed. I do it myself, and often, actually....among other things that might be considered 'illegal'. I'm not placing blame or anything, just curious.

I'm in Canada, by the way, so the laws could very well be different.
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Unread 10-21-2004, 11:34 AM   #72
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"I could sing of your love forever" although logically correct has the implication of "well I might or might not" .I've violated copyright before and sung "I will sing of your love forever" and I have faith that someday that will be the case.
i don't think that is what they were trying to say with the song. it doesn't have that "i might or might not" issue at all. what they are saying is that God is so amazing and so great that to be able to sing a song about everying that
God is, the song would have to go on forever with out end because God is eternity and will never end.
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Unread 10-21-2004, 01:25 PM   #73
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In the song We are Hungry

i get hung up on the bridge

we lift our holy hands up...

how many here have holy hands, just out of curiosity...really meet any trully holy people lately...if there singing this i hope they are...

i do like the kermit test from page one here, i can only imagine just failed it for me
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Unread 10-21-2004, 01:57 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Awzmgd117
In the song We are Hungry

i get hung up on the bridge

we lift our holy hands up...

how many here have holy hands, just out of curiosity...really meet any trully holy people lately...if there singing this i hope they are...

i do like the kermit test from page one here, i can only imagine just failed it for me
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Unread 10-22-2004, 08:21 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Awzmgd117
In the song We are Hungry

i get hung up on the bridge

we lift our holy hands up...

how many here have holy hands, just out of curiosity...really meet any trully holy people lately...if there singing this i hope they are...
any of us who are washed in the blood of Christ are holy people. Holy means set apart, and that's what happens when we become christians.

Quote:
Originally Posted by awzmgd117
i do like the kermit test from page one here, i can only imagine just failed it for me
that song is probably one of the only songs i have a real problem with. i think the melody is beautiful, but when it comes to singing it congregationally....whew!
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