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Unread 09-22-2004, 10:01 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anippard1987
Im surprised nobody has noticed this one.. just tell me one thing that is wrong with the following segment of that song.

"And these are the days of
Your servant David
Rebuilding a temple of praise"

Did David rebuild the temple? NO! i don't think so! Wasn't David specifically told by God that he was not allowed to build the temple? YES! It was Solomon who rebuilt the temple of praise... this one always makes me angry
I find the concept of Days of Elijah so silly that I can't take it serious enough to critique it.

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Unread 09-22-2004, 10:52 PM   #47
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"Days of Elijah" is about rebuiding the temple of praise, not the tabernacle that Solomon constructed. I do not have a problem with the song at all. Because, David was the primary example of praise in the Old Testament. I believe the song "Days of Elijah" also has a New Testament basis in Acts 15:16 which states, "After these things I will return, and I will rebuild the Tabernacle of David which has fallen, and I will rebuild its ruins, and I will restore it." Well, we are in those days, thus the song. I do not have a problem with those lyrics, they are well supported in the Scriptures to me.

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Unread 09-23-2004, 05:19 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anippard1987
Im surprised nobody has noticed this one.. just tell me one thing that is wrong with the following segment of that song.

"And these are the days of
Your servant David
Rebuilding a temple of praise"

Did David rebuild the temple? NO! i don't think so! Wasn't David specifically told by God that he was not allowed to build the temple? YES! It was Solomon who rebuilt the temple of praise... this one always makes me angry
The "temple of praise," I think, refers to the setup where David had musicians and priests in the tabernacle praising God 24-7. It might not be a literal reference to Solomon's temple. If you want to take it literally, you can stop after the first line...no, these aren't the days of Elijah. He's dead!
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Unread 09-24-2004, 12:29 AM   #49
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maybe so, and you all have valid opinions. but i cannot sing that song without remembering that David was not allowed to build the temple. he was specifically told by God that he was not allowed. So why write it? I don't know. maybe it does have a more deep meaning, but i think the truth is Robin Mark made a mistake when he wrote the song. no less to him, he is a great musician and i definately enjoy some other songs of his.
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Unread 09-24-2004, 01:25 AM   #50
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I want to interject a brief comment here. I think its wrong on Biblical grounds to be criticizing these songs, "Days of Elijah" or other songs. The reason why I think its wrong is that when someone like Robin Mark or whomever else writes a song, that is their offering of worship before God. And who are we to judge their offering? That is like judging someone's tithe, saying "So and so made a mistake because they didn't tithe 10 percent, or their offering was insufficient before God." That is wrongly judging and not our place. If a song of worship or praise is written in faith by its author, then we should encourage that, even if we have theological issues with the song or songs. We should not jump to criticize, as I have read in this thread. - Jonathan
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Unread 09-24-2004, 05:07 AM   #51
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If I wrote a song that said "Jesus was a really good man, but he wasn't God," would you say the same thing?

I think the attitude that we approach this with is critical, and it's hard to convey attitude over the internet. For myself, I'm trying to develop a more pastoral attitude toward leading the congregation in worship. In a sense, I want to be looking out for their needs, and I don't want to be teaching them things that contradict what the Bible says.
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Unread 09-24-2004, 05:58 AM   #52
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We are not judging the songs as their personal offering to God. We are judging the songs for their value as coorporate worship songs.
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Unread 09-24-2004, 07:35 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by georgeo
We are not judging the songs as their personal offering to God. We are judging the songs for their value as coorporate worship songs.
Bingo.

Jonathan, while the tone of these threads can seem critical, I believe most of us here want, as scripture tells us, to test everything.
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Unread 09-24-2004, 10:35 AM   #54
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JT, I agree, that song would be fundamentally wrong. I mean, Jesus IS God, so that would not be a mistake for you to write that song, that would be a doctrinal error.

But there is a HUGE difference between whether Jesus is God (and He is), versus the kind of theology in a song like "Days of Elijah," to which reasonable Christians can differ about, because the theology behind the song is not a foundational, fundamental issue. The Scripture does say that we should test things, but that does not mean we should examine EVERY song out there to see whether we agree with its theology. Obviously, if you disagree with the song's theology, you personally should not use it in your Sunday worship service. However, if it is not a foundational/fundamental issue, as "Days of Elijah" or other songs are not, then let us not judge the content of the lyrics, despising Robin Mark's or other author's offerings as theologically incorrect.- Jonathan
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Unread 09-24-2004, 01:50 PM   #55
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That's lunacy.
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Unread 09-24-2004, 02:01 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jbkrems
The Scripture does say that we should test things, but that does not mean we should examine EVERY song out there to see whether we agree with its theology. Obviously, if you disagree with the song's theology, you personally should not use it in your Sunday worship service. However, if it is not a foundational/fundamental issue, as "Days of Elijah" or other songs are not, then let us not judge the content of the lyrics, despising Robin Mark's or other author's offerings as theologically incorrect.- Jonathan
Of course you should test EVERY song that you use for worship. I would almost say its borderline sin to NOT consider the contents of song. That isn't worshipping in TRUTH.

If a song is theologically sound it is not us judging the content of the lyrics, IT IS THE BIBLE, God's Word. Further, pointing out where a song is in contrast to scripture does not even remotely imply despising the author or questioning their motives. Saying a song is theologically unsound is merely saying a song is unsound.
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Unread 09-24-2004, 04:01 PM   #57
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There is a difference between considering the song's lyrics for Sunday worship and judging the lyrics as being not Biblical or scripturally sound. The former is a good thing. I am for a presumption that a song of worship or praise should be "presumed innocent" of being theologically unsound, unless there is something glaring in the song that isn't theologically sound.

But then, obviously we have discovered in this thread that a song like "Days of Elijah" for example, is theologically acceptable to many people, but not theologically sound according to some of the authors in this thread. Here, we are not dealing with something that is foundational and even heretical/apostate if it doesn't square with the Bible. Instead, we're dealing with a different matter, something that is NOT a foundational or fundamental doctrine. It is true that David was not allowed to LITERALLY build the Tabernacle, as that task was left for Solomon to complete. However, I believe "Tabernacle of David," mentioned in Acts 15, and the Book of Amos, is not a LITERAL building like the one Solomon built, but rather is a spiritual concept where we have praise and worship with the spirit of David running throughout it, if that makes sense. Now, if you disagree with my theology, that's OK. This is a rather tangential concept. I imagine that some may, in fact, disagree, and again, that's fine. Obviously if you disagree with a song's theology, don't use the song. But unless its a foundational/fundamental matter, don't push your belief on other people, like I've seen in this thread. Pushing that kind of opinion is not showing grace to other people and is not Biblical. - Jonathan
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Unread 09-24-2004, 05:54 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jbkrems
There is a difference between considering the song's lyrics for Sunday worship and judging the lyrics as being not Biblical or scripturally sound. The former is a good thing. I am for a presumption that a song of worship or praise should be "presumed innocent" of being theologically unsound, unless there is something glaring in the song that isn't theologically sound.

But then, obviously we have discovered in this thread that a song like "Days of Elijah" for example, is theologically acceptable to many people, but not theologically sound according to some of the authors in this thread. Here, we are not dealing with something that is foundational and even heretical/apostate if it doesn't square with the Bible. Instead, we're dealing with a different matter, something that is NOT a foundational or fundamental doctrine. It is true that David was not allowed to LITERALLY build the Tabernacle, as that task was left for Solomon to complete. However, I believe "Tabernacle of David," mentioned in Acts 15, and the Book of Amos, is not a LITERAL building like the one Solomon built, but rather is a spiritual concept where we have praise and worship with the spirit of David running throughout it, if that makes sense. Now, if you disagree with my theology, that's OK. This is a rather tangential concept. I imagine that some may, in fact, disagree, and again, that's fine. Obviously if you disagree with a song's theology, don't use the song. But unless its a foundational/fundamental matter, don't push your belief on other people, like I've seen in this thread. Pushing that kind of opinion is not showing grace to other people and is not Biblical. - Jonathan
I don't feel like anyone's pushed anything on me. I appreciate hearing people's concerns about songs. Ultimately, I'll decide for myself if I think a song is appropriate for my congregation. And, if neither I nor the worship director thinks it is, there's a pretty good chance we won't do it.
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Unread 09-24-2004, 06:00 PM   #59
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"despising Robin Mark's or other author's offerings as theologically incorrect."

Well if it is... That would be like in OT time commenting that someone brought a lame or maimed lamb to the alter.
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Unread 09-24-2004, 09:36 PM   #60
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I find it interesting (and amusing) how a thread is started about a particular topic, and the majority of the thread is spent discussing why the topic is being discussed, or why/why not discuss it, intead of discussing the topic itself.

"what songs are theologically incoherent?" => "you can't define that, because it depends on how you sing the songs. besides, you shouldn't judge someone's personal offering"

"what is worship?" => "we can't define worship, so we shouldn't ask that question", or "God doesn't want us to limit our definition of worship"

"how do you play this?" => "look in the tabs"

"what should I do about this problem in my life?" => "don't ask us; ask God"

"what can I do to be a better worship leader?" => "it depends on your denomination, and your particular church and its situation, format, band, attitudes, etc"

"have you guys ever done this before" => "yes, and it worked/yes, but it didn't work" or "no, and i don't want to/no, but i want to" (this is the only sort of thread that usually gets actual advice).

*ceases mockery of CGR patterns*
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