Go Back   Christian Guitar Forum > Musicians > Worship Leading
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Arcade Mark Forums Read

Reply
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 12-22-2004, 11:30 PM   #151
Still true to this day...
 
Luke's Avatar
 

Joined: Aug 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 23,569
paid
Quote:
Originally Posted by reidwwall
I still believe that their is nothing wrong with the song. We just disagree..
But you have given no reasoning to explain why Psalm 2 means what the song communicates that it means (whereas others have given reasoning as to why it doesn't). It's fine that you disagree, but it's an objective question. One of us is right and one of us is wrong. There has been explanation as to why you are believed to be wrong, and none in return.

Quote:
We probably have a theological disagreement...
There are 0 exegetes that I'm aware of that claim that any of Proverbs is prophetic. It's not. Period.

__________________
Luke Sneeringer
Luke is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Unread 12-23-2004, 12:54 AM   #152
support the rabid
 
psalm63adam's Avatar
 

Joined: Feb 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 7,223
I would say that the Proverb "Better to live on the corner of the roof than with a nagging wife" is very prophetic.
__________________
"When we're still holding on to how things were, our arms aren't free to embrace today." - Rob Bell

I've decided to embrace today - "May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace."

Peace,

Adam
psalm63adam is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-01-2005, 05:48 PM   #153
Registered User
 
timmyfuge's Avatar
 

Joined: Dec 2002
Location: covington, kent
Posts: 3
Eyes to see interpretation are Gods to give

you have to take into account the human nature. The human nature is selfish no matter who the person, otherwise there would be nothing to hinder us from perfection. No matter how much we try we can never completley disregard our desire for self betterment and naturally we turn to sin. a sinful nature. it's natural for us to pursue sin. But It's not the will of God that's the exact reason God sent his beloved son. to pay for the sins we would continue to commit. You see? we do not live for the things we do but who we are when we do them. Jesus did not ignore the prostitute but showed the greatest love and compassion. And paul who had the blood of many christians on his hands. Christs Compassion does not fail. where does the Christain first come from. before we are Christians, we are non-Christians we are in regard for sin. so then how do we find Christianity. We don't, it finds us. It is God who brings the sin loving non-Christian to Christ. Ok so you have to veiw the inspiration behind those lines in pour out my heart. First off there is a reason God is also known as the healer. This song is mostly a surrender. a confession, acknowledging there joy in the compassion that Christ continues to have. The way he always give strength to escape temptation. Regard for sin is in our nature.


You have interprated Meet with me wrong. have you ever found your self in a time where you are hurting from pain, from anguish. A time in your life where everything seems to go bad and it all seems like to much. A time that that distracts you and draws you in another direction than that of Gods. But when you finally come out of it. you realize you have withdrew yourself from The path you were travelling and have become farther off from God. I beleive that this song is a cry for rescue. A song that speaks of surrender. We do that alot. "Reveal youself to me" "Come and meet with me" is asking that God reveal his very self which includes the mysteries that are limitless. It's a cry for discipleship that we ourselves can be better servents. It's out of conviction that we cry such potent phrases, such as meet with me. Maybe such a phrase is incorrect in itself but it can't be determined what the heart of a worshiper had in mind when he spoke these words in the place where his very self might have escaped to a place where none other than him and the audience of one would be. All I'm going to say is that words are an invite to interpretation. just like the bible I believe God gives the eyes to interprate words such as these. Many people have confided in these words that lead them into worship. They have not been mislead for if They were in the place of worship God moving in them would not allow mere words to decieve.
Ultimately Don't be so broad when it comes to interpretations. In psalm david has cried out to God many times such as in Psalm 61:1-3 He is a Christian calling to be led into refuge. "I call to you as my heart grows faint"
Psalm 59:9 "O my strength I watch for you; you, o God, are my fortress"
He is looking for God.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt4JC
I have a bit of a problem with the songs
Come Now Is The Time To Worship
and Come Just As You Are
b/c the Bible is very clear on the fact that we are to prepare ourselves for worship. we are not to come to God's throne "Just as we are."

Also, the old Vineyard song, Pour Out My Heart
It says "i pour out my heart for i know that you hear every cry/you are listening/no matter what state my heart is in/you are faithful to answer..."
this obviously violates Psalm 66:18, which talks about how if there i regard sin in my heart, the Lord will not hear me.

and then of course Amazing Love (you are my king) bothers me as well. We sing the version done by the newsboys, who substitute "in" with "to" making it just a repeat of the line before. plus, using their version lets us get away with the copyright issues that may come along with changing lyrics in songs.

and there are more songs than just "It Is You" that talk about God coming to meet us, when he is already there...
All Who Are Thirsty
Meet With Me
Come And Fill Me Up
etc.

One newer one, Consuming Fire by Tim Hughes. One line bothers me. the one that says "Leave us abondoned to Your praise." While the line makes for some cool songwriting, i can not get past the fact that it is quite clearly asking God to abandon us... WHAT IS WITH THAT!?!?!?!

Above All's last line is questionable, but i don't personally have much of a problem with it.

if i think of any others i'll let you know
timmyfuge is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-01-2005, 06:27 PM   #154
Registered User
 
timmyfuge's Avatar
 

Joined: Dec 2002
Location: covington, kent
Posts: 3
thematicly structured worship leading

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate
A lot of the ancient (read: from the medieval period and earlier) liturgical traditions of the church were very focused on theme and content, especially as it related to certain times of the church year. Besides the things that stayed the same all the time (the Kyrie, Gloria, Credo [Creed], etc), all the other sung elements of the mass (the Catholic church was the dominant church for centuries) would all focus on a theme that was appropriate to the time of year. There were Alleluia's for Easter, Advent, Christmas, etc; and the same was true for all other elements of the service (the introductory song, the communion songs, etc).

Just an interesting tidbit that shows that thematic worship leading is not really that new of an idea.

In His love,
Nate
Is there a guidline to prayer as to thematic focus. Do we pray as others expect us to or more so accordingly on an intraspective, based on The works God has done in each individual. Prayer is our time with God involving, a person and God no one else. prayer ,and Worship are a persons own devotion, time spent with God. worship is a response to what God has done in our individual lives. How does a Thematicly structured worship service allow this response. Just some food for thought
timmyfuge is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-01-2005, 08:50 PM   #155
She's a guitar hero!
 
Dave H's Avatar
 

Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Evanston, IL
Posts: 3,393
Send a message via AIM to Dave H
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmyfuge
Prayer is our time with God involving, a person and God no one else. prayer ,and Worship are a persons own devotion, time spent with God.
While prayer that is between a person and God alone is certainly ONE aspect of prayer, it is not the only one. Otherwise passages such as Matt. 18:20 and Acts 1:14 and many others wouldn't make a lot of sense
Dave H is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-01-2005, 11:56 PM   #156
Registered User
 
timmyfuge's Avatar
 

Joined: Dec 2002
Location: covington, kent
Posts: 3
I should be more thorough on what I type

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave H
While prayer that is between a person and God alone is certainly ONE aspect of prayer, it is not the only one. Otherwise passages such as Matt. 18:20 and Acts 1:14 and many others wouldn't make a lot of sense

I'm sorry when I wrote this I only had one point to speak of in mind. That's not what i ment. I absolutely know and believe in the power of prayer in groups. I forgot to overlook my posting you see this is my first visit to this site area. I have to be a little more thorough. Again don't think I ment what the post sounded like.
timmyfuge is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-02-2005, 12:11 AM   #157
so much
 
Nate's Avatar
 

Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 19,689
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmyfuge
Is there a guidline to prayer as to thematic focus. Do we pray as others expect us to or more so accordingly on an intraspective, based on The works God has done in each individual. Prayer is our time with God involving, a person and God no one else. prayer ,and Worship are a persons own devotion, time spent with God. worship is a response to what God has done in our individual lives. How does a Thematicly structured worship service allow this response. Just some food for thought
I think a distinction needs to be drawn here between worship on an individual basis and worship as a congregation of believers. Individuals should most certainly feel free to worship God specifically for what He has done in their lives. I'm not so sure, however, that a congregational worship service is the place for that type of worship to take place. As much as possible, I think a congregational worship service should focus on the unity of the Body and Bride of Christ, and not on the individuality of its members.

Many of the Psalms seem to have been written as personal worship offerings to God, so that type of worship is certainly appropriate; it's questionable, however, whether the Psalms that were written in that personal, individual style were meant for congregational worship times. Most of the Psalms, as I recall, that are specifically labelled for use in congregational worship are of a congregational nature rather than a personal/individual nature. Furthermore, when you look at the actual worship services that take place in the Bible (Miriam leading the children of Isreal in praise; Solomon leading the service after the dedication of the temple; etc), you see primarily worshipful actions that focus not on what God has done for any one individual, but what God has done for the collected congregation of individuals that are assembled at the worship service. Finally, whenever Scripture talks about the meeting of believers, it almost always uses congregational language such as "us," "our," "ourselves," "together," etc, and rarely uses individualistic language.

I think, judging from Scripture and what seems to be appropriate for the maximum edification of all assembled at a worship service, that congregational worship services should be just that... congregational. Thematic worship services (especially when part or all of the theme is repeated often over time, as the worship services of liturgical churches are) seem to be especially useful and effective at uniting the worshippers in attendance at any given congregational worship service.

I hope that all made sense.

In His love,
Nate

p.s. concering individual worship: I think individual worship best takes place when we are by ourselves. In your car, in your room, with your guitar or other instrument, in your bed at night, etc... these are all excellent times to respond privately and individually in worship to what God has done in your own life.
__________________

"(a) Marriage in this state shall consist only of the union of one man and one woman.
(b) This state or a political subdivision of this state may not create or
recognize any legal status identical or similar to marriage.
Texas Constitution, Article I, Section 32"
Nate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-02-2005, 02:21 AM   #158
Registered User
 

Joined: Jun 2004
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 51
Send a message via AIM to Jbkrems
So, Nate, you don't think that the Passion song (I think its off one of the more recent Passion CDs), "You Have Done Great Things" is appropriate for congregational worship?

Jonathan
Jbkrems is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-18-2005, 05:09 AM   #159
why hello there
 
Dice's Avatar
 

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,031
Send a message via AIM to Dice
I just thought I'd share two modifications of some popular worship songs that have some theological issues.

First in "You are my King (amazing love)" the last line is "In all I do I honor You" which many recognize as an outright lie. The newsboys had a noble rewrite to "In all I do to honor You" but I think with the previous line "And it's my joy to honor You" that makes it just redundant. So I rewrote it to "May all I do so honor You", so it is a profession to daily die to ourselves as Christ did in His death.

The second is the last line of "Above All" where it says "You took the fall, and thought of me above all" which is also untrue, because Christ was thinking of honoring the Father above all. So I rewrote this to "You took the fall, humbly, above all", which gives "the fall" the double meaning of His death as well as the burden of The Fall in that death. It also gives double meaning to "above all" because in doing so He was the most humble of all, and then God honored Him above all for that humility (Phil 2). This rewrite also makes the focus of the verses far more God-centered and God-honoring.
Dice is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-18-2005, 10:28 AM   #160
so much
 
Nate's Avatar
 

Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 19,689
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jbkrems
So, Nate, you don't think that the Passion song (I think its off one of the more recent Passion CDs), "You Have Done Great Things" is appropriate for congregational worship?
I don't know. I'm not familiar with that song.
__________________

"(a) Marriage in this state shall consist only of the union of one man and one woman.
(b) This state or a political subdivision of this state may not create or
recognize any legal status identical or similar to marriage.
Texas Constitution, Article I, Section 32"
Nate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-18-2005, 03:18 PM   #161
Moderator
 
Sean's Avatar
 

Joined: Sep 2002
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 23,757
Send a message via AIM to Sean Send a message via MSN to Sean
...my favorite thing about this thread is that it just won't die.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate
I don't know. I'm not familiar with that song.
Its called "Psalm 126."

I can't post the official lyrics to the song, but the verse and prechorus are pretty much word for word verses 1-3 in the NIV. The bridge is pretty much a paraphrase of verses 4-6
Sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-18-2005, 03:41 PM   #162
seeking God
 

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,974
Maybe I should reverse sticky it.
__________________
Me
georgeo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-18-2005, 03:49 PM   #163
She's a guitar hero!
 
Dave H's Avatar
 

Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Evanston, IL
Posts: 3,393
Send a message via AIM to Dave H
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice
The second is the last line of "Above All" where it says "You took the fall, and thought of me above all" which is also untrue, because Christ was thinking of honoring the Father above all. So I rewrote this to "You took the fall, humbly, above all", which gives "the fall" the double meaning of His death as well as the burden of The Fall in that death. It also gives double meaning to "above all" because in doing so He was the most humble of all, and then God honored Him above all for that humility (Phil 2). This rewrite also makes the focus of the verses far more God-centered and God-honoring.
We're doing this song this week, and I've often thought the same thing...so when we were practicing I asked the question. "did Christ really think of me above all, or did He think of His Father's will above all?"

We discussed, and one possible answer that was thrown around was that they are essentially the same thing. That is, Jesus, in doing the Father's will, was thinking of us, that was the end result, or something like that.

What do you guys think of this? I haven't made my mind up either way, but it has made me think a bit.
Dave H is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-18-2005, 05:49 PM   #164
sing these songs...
 

Joined: Apr 2001
Location: Dorchester
Posts: 972
Send a message via MSN to paat
maybe realizing that we are a part of the father's will would help think through that song.

Pat D
__________________
myxanga | myspace | mymusic | myband

paat is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-18-2005, 05:54 PM   #165
Moderator
 
Sean's Avatar
 

Joined: Sep 2002
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 23,757
Send a message via AIM to Sean Send a message via MSN to Sean
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave H
We discussed, and one possible answer that was thrown around was that they are essentially the same thing. That is, Jesus, in doing the Father's will, was thinking of us, that was the end result, or something like that.
I don't think it can work that way because one is the means to the other. God was glorified by Jesus dying on the cross for us. God being glorified is what is ABOVE ALL. Thinking of us is a means to that end. Jesus thought of us, but NOT above all.
Sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:00 AM.


Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2