[Robbi]

As a RC, I dont understand the purpose behind repetitious prayers after confession. Ie. the priest may ask you to make 2 Our Fathers, & 5 Hail Marys etc...

Also depending if youve been particular sinful...the number of prayers asked to make may increase....

I dont remember the reasoning behind this...if someone could help me out as to why this is done?

[P3chrmd]

I understand it as penance...meaning

we have been absolved of our sins...BUT...the consequences of our sins are still there!

Lets say...I throw a rock and break a window. I can ask God to forgive me, and he will, I can ask the owner of the window to forgive me, and they can! BUT...it still dosen't change that the window was broken!!!!

When we sin, it effects EVERYONE in our christian community (and we don't think about that lots of times)...a ripple effect if you will.

So the penance the priest gives us...sometimes prayers...sometimes as much as a community service is an act of reparation for the consequences of our sins...if you will.

[Robbi]

Im just trying to get my mind around understanding the need for repetitious prayers...ok community service is OK, pray 1 Our Father, & 1 Hail Mary...and mean it!!, but why is it necessary to repeat the prayers a number of times...

[P3chrmd]

hmmm...let me look into this for you...just so I can try to better understand it...so i can answer your question :-)

[goldenchild]

I think the more one prays such prayers(really and truly and not just saying them) it helps them change. Praying the rosary every night has done absolute wonders for me and little prayers like that said over and over again get ingrained inside of us and we wish to make these prayers, and everything the prayers ask for, come alive in us. That's just my opinion, I'm sure there's a better explanation.

[Robbi]

The Rosary is a new thing for me and must admit I havnt prayed that much on it. The meditating on the mysteries is one thing but the repetitious praying always boggles me when Jesus said to the apostles dont do as the heathens do by using vain repetitions.
Hence my question at the start of the thread.

[P3chrmd]

Originally Posted by Robbi

The Rosary is a new thing for me and must admit I havnt prayed that much on it. The meditating on the mysteries is one thing but the repetitious praying always boggles me when Jesus said to the apostles dont do as the heathens do by using vain repetitions.
Hence my question at the start of the thread.

heres some info from scripture catholic...maybe it will help you out a little

Matt. 6:7 - Jesus teaches, "do not heap up empty phrases" in prayer. Protestants use this verse to criticize various Catholic forms of prayer which repeat phrases, such as litanies and the Rosary. But Jesus' focus in this instruction is on the"vain," and not on the "repetition."

Matt. 26:44 - for example, Jesus prayed a third time in the garden of Gethsemane, saying the exact same words again. It is not the repetition that is the issue. It's the vanity. God looks into our heart, not solely at our words.

Luke 18:13 - the tax collector kept beating his breast and praying "God be merciful to me, a sinner." This repetitive prayer was pleasing to God because it was offered with a sincere heart.

Acts 10:2,4 - Cornelius prayed constantly to the Lord and his prayers ascended as a memorial before God.

Rom. 1:9 - Paul says that he always mentions the Romans in his prayers without ceasing.

Rom. 12:12 - Paul commands us to be constant in prayer. God looks at what is in our heart, not necessarily how we choose our words.

1 Thess. 5:17 - Paul commands us to pray constantly. Good repetition is different than vain repetition.

Rev. 4:8 - the angels pray day and night without cessation the same words "Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God Almighty." This is repetitious prayer that is pleasing to God.

Psalm 136 - in this Psalm, the phrase "For His steadfast love endures forever" is more repetitious than any Catholic prayer, and it is God's divine Word.

Dan. 3:35-66 - the phrase "Bless the Lord" is similarly offered repeatedly, and mirrors Catholic litanies.

[P3chrmd]

Also...

The angels are eternally in the presence of God repeating "Holy, Holy, Holy (Rev 4:8). This is not empty nor pagan is it?

[goldenchild]

Originally Posted by Robbi

The Rosary is a new thing for me and must admit I havnt prayed that much on it. The meditating on the mysteries is one thing but the repetitious praying always boggles me when Jesus said to the apostles dont do as the heathens do by using vain repetitions.
Hence my question at the start of the thread.

The rosary is repititious, but it is anything but vain if done correctly and therefore is very good. The prayers are very Scriptural and are a great meditation on the life of Christ. Tou know, when I think of vain repititious prayer I tend to think of the buddhist chants and stuff. That's kind of what comes to mind.

[Katholish]

The priest gives a penance to the person in confession as a means of amking satisfaction for those sins in part. Of course all eternal punishment for sin has been atoned for by Christ and His Passion and Death, however the sins that we commit still have a temporal punishment due them, and we must make satisfaction for that temporal punishment, if not in this life, then in Purgatory, for nothing impure can enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Suffering on this earth can be beneficial for the Christian in this sense.

The actual penance giving by the priest is the expression of our interior penance in some sense, and it is my understanding that it is necessary for forgiveness, that if one did not do their penance, they would not be forgiven the sin.

St. Augustine mentions the importance of penance for serious sins.

St. Augustine, A Sermon to Catechumens on the Creed:

15. "Forgiveness of sins." Ye have [this article of] the Creed perfectly in you when ye receive Baptism. Let none say, "I have done this or that sin: perchance that is not forgiven me." What hast thou done? How great a sin hast thou done? Name any heinous thing thou hast committed, heavy, horrible, which thou shudderest even to think of: have done what thou wilt: hast thou killed Christ? There is not than that deed any worse, because also than Christ there is nothing better. What a dreadful thing is it to kill Christ! Yet the Jews killed Him, and many afterwards believed on Him and drank His blood: they are forgiven the sin which they committed. When ye have been baptized, hold fast a good life in the commandments of God, that ye may guard your Baptism even unto the end. I do not tell you that ye will live here without sin; but they are venial, without which this life is not. For the sake of all sins was Baptism provided; for the sake of light sins, without which we cannot be, was prayer provided. What hath the Prayer? "Forgive us our debts, as we also forgive our debtors." Once for all we have washing in Baptism, every day we have washing in prayer. Only, do not commit those things for which ye must needs be separated from Christ's body: which be far from you! For those whom ye have seen doing penance, have committed heinous things, either adulteries or some enormous crimes: for these they do penance. Because if theirs had been light sins, to blot out these daily prayer would suffice.

16. In three ways then are sins remitted in the Church; by Baptism, by prayer, by the greater humility of penance; yet God doth not remit sins but to the baptized. The very sins which He remits first, He remits not but to the baptized. When? when they are baptized. The sins which are after remitted upon prayer, upon penance, to whom He remits, it is to the baptized that He remitteth. For how can they say, "Our Father," who are not yet born sons? The Catechumens, so long as they be such, have upon them all their sins. If Catechumens, how much more Pagans? how much more heretics? But to heretics we do not change their baptism. Why? because they have baptism in the same way as a deserter has the soldier's mark: just so these also have Baptism; they have it, but to be condemned thereby, not crowned. And yet if the deserter himself, being amended, begin to do duty as a soldier, does any man dare to change his mark?

[KFBobInsanesMom]

Originally Posted by P3chrmd

heres some info from scripture catholic...maybe it will help you out a little

Matt. 6:7 - Jesus teaches, "do not heap up empty phrases" in prayer. Protestants use this verse to criticize various Catholic forms of prayer which repeat phrases, such as litanies and the Rosary. But Jesus' focus in this instruction is on the"vain," and not on the "repetition."

.

Matthew 6 : 7-8 7 "And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words. 8 "So do not be like them; for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.

The focus is on the " many words"/repetition. At least Matthew says it is.

[KFBobInsanesMom]

Originally Posted by P3chrmd

Matt. 26:44 - for example, Jesus prayed a third time in the garden of Gethsemane, saying the exact same words again. It is not the repetition that is the issue. It's the vanity. God looks into our heart, not solely at our words.

Luke 18:13 - the tax collector kept beating his breast and praying "God be merciful to me, a sinner." This repetitive prayer was pleasing to God because it was offered with a sincere heart.

Acts 10:2,4 - Cornelius prayed constantly to the Lord and his prayers ascended as a memorial before God.

Rom. 1:9 - Paul says that he always mentions the Romans in his prayers without ceasing.

Rom. 12:12 - Paul commands us to be constant in prayer. God looks at what is in our heart, not necessarily how we choose our words.

1 Thess. 5:17 - Paul commands us to pray constantly. Good repetition is different than vain repetition.

Rev. 4:8 - the angels pray day and night without cessation the same words "Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God Almighty." This is repetitious prayer that is pleasing to God.

Psalm 136 - in this Psalm, the phrase "For His steadfast love endures forever" is more repetitious than any Catholic prayer, and it is God's divine Word.

Dan. 3:35-66 - the phrase "Bless the Lord" is similarly offered repeatedly, and mirrors Catholic litanies.

Matthew 26:44 The first time He prayed "39 And going a little farther he fell on his face and prayed, "My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt." The second: " 42 Again, for the second time, he went away and prayed, "My Father, if this cannot pass unless I drink it, thy will be done." Slightly different .. first If possible let the cup pass from me... the second.. if it cannot pass, I will drink it" The third time, same as the second...."44 So, leaving them again, he went away and prayed for the third time, saying the same words." Saying something a second time is not the same as saying something over and over and over.

Luke 18: 13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me a sinner!' Where is the repetition?

Acts 10:2 a devout man who feared God with all his household, gave alms liberally to the people, and prayed constantly to God. He prayed constantly, this doesn't mean he prayed the same thing over and over.

Romans 1: 9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I mention you always in my prayers. This isn't repetition as in the Matthew 6 sense of saying many words over and over. Jesus told us to pray " Our Father....", He didn't tell us to repeat it a dozen times in a row, but to pray it when we come before the Father. Praying for someone each time you pray is not repetitive praying as the rosary is.

Romans 12:10-15 10 Be devoted to one another in brotherly love; give preference to one another in honor; 11 not lagging behind in diligence, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord; 12 rejoicing in hope, persevering in tribulation, devoted to prayer, 13 contributing to the needs of the saints, practicing hospitality. 14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. 15 Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep.... This list tells many things we should do at all times. We should be devoted to prayer, but that is not saying we pray the same thing over and over.

1 Thess 5:16-18 16 Rejoice always; 17 pray without ceasing; 18 in everything give thanks; for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus. Once again this says to pray, not to pray the same thing over and over again.

Revelation 4:6- 9 6.. And in the midst of the throne, and around the throne, were four living creatures full of eyes in front and in back. 7 The first living creature was like a lion, the second living creature like a calf, the third living creature had a face like a man, and the fourth living creature was like a flying eagle. 8 The four living creatures, each having six wings, were full of eyes around and within. And they do not rest day or night, saying: "Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, Who was and is and is to come!" 9 Whenever the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to Him who sits on the throne, who lives forever and ever... They repeat words of praise and glory and honor and thanks to Jesus...not sure how this is considered praying by them, but it is quite different from the Hail Mary which is not giving praise and glory and honor and thanks to Jesus.

Psalm 136... A Psalm is a song, songs repeat choruses.

Dan 3 has 30 verses so I cannot comment on this.

Robbi, don't be afraid to question that which contradicts scripture. 2 Timothy 2 :15 says.... 15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. It does not say " let someone else rightly divide the word of truth" but for YOU to do that.

[P3chrmd]

Robbi

courtesy of my pals at Phatmass...trying to explain the prayers after confession

The purpose of the penance is to keep the person from committing sin in the future and to remind him of the seriousness of sin and how it offends God, neighbor and himself. I believe the amount of prayers or type of penance say or do depends upon the seriousness of your sins.

We are forgive by God when we Confess our sins and are truly sorry for them and are absolved by the priest. The penance that we do teaches us to refrain from committing that sin again.

Some Catholics have problems with saying the Hail Mary or prayers to Saints as part of their penance but those prayers are enlisting the aid of our Holy Mother and the Saints. With their prayers, since they are not weighed down by sin, we have a greater chance of overcoming sin. For example, If I had a friend who was a recovering alcoholic, I would not drink around them because it could cause them to fall. By my looking after the other person's well being I'm keeping them from committing a big mistake. The prayers of Mary and the Saints do the same for us. They help to keep us strong and focused and away from sin.

[P3chrmd]

Originally Posted by KFBobInsanesMom

Matthew 26:44 The first time He prayed "39 And going a little farther he fell on his face and prayed, "My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt." The second: " 42 Again, for the second time, he went away and prayed, "My Father, if this cannot pass unless I drink it, thy will be done." Slightly different .. first If possible let the cup pass from me... the second.. if it cannot pass, I will drink it" The third time, same as the second...."44 So, leaving them again, he went away and prayed for the third time, saying the same words." Saying something a second time is not the same as saying something over and over and over.

Luke 18: 13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me a sinner!' Where is the repetition?

Acts 10:2 a devout man who feared God with all his household, gave alms liberally to the people, and prayed constantly to God. He prayed constantly, this doesn't mean he prayed the same thing over and over.

Romans 1: 9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I mention you always in my prayers. This isn't repetition as in the Matthew 6 sense of saying many words over and over. Jesus told us to pray " Our Father....", He didn't tell us to repeat it a dozen times in a row, but to pray it when we come before the Father. Praying for someone each time you pray is not repetitive praying as the rosary is.

Romans 12:10-15 10 Be devoted to one another in brotherly love; give preference to one another in honor; 11 not lagging behind in diligence, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord; 12 rejoicing in hope, persevering in tribulation, devoted to prayer, 13 contributing to the needs of the saints, practicing hospitality. 14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. 15 Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep.... This list tells many things we should do at all times. We should be devoted to prayer, but that is not saying we pray the same thing over and over.

1 Thess 5:16-18 16 Rejoice always; 17 pray without ceasing; 18 in everything give thanks; for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus. Once again this says to pray, not to pray the same thing over and over again.

Revelation 4:6- 9 6.. And in the midst of the throne, and around the throne, were four living creatures full of eyes in front and in back. 7 The first living creature was like a lion, the second living creature like a calf, the third living creature had a face like a man, and the fourth living creature was like a flying eagle. 8 The four living creatures, each having six wings, were full of eyes around and within. And they do not rest day or night, saying: "Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, Who was and is and is to come!" 9 Whenever the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to Him who sits on the throne, who lives forever and ever... They repeat words of praise and glory and honor and thanks to Jesus...not sure how this is considered praying by them, but it is quite different from the Hail Mary which is not giving praise and glory and honor and thanks to Jesus.

Psalm 136... A Psalm is a song, songs repeat choruses.

Dan 3 has 30 verses so I cannot comment on this.

Robbi, don't be afraid to question that which contradicts scripture. 2 Timothy 2 :15 says.... 15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. It does not say " let someone else rightly divide the word of truth" but for YOU to do that.

The Our Father...do you happen to say that prayer? Is that not repetious prayer to say that over and over again...I don't care if you only say it once every week (sunday)...is it still not repetitious...if you have said it EVERY Sunday for all of your life!

JESUS SAID not to use VAIN repetitious prayer...he NEVER said anything about simply saying a repetitious prayer...I mean HE GAVE US ONE TO SAY! He know whats in Robbi's heart, and all the other Catholics in the world!

YOU DON'T...

[P3chrmd]

Originally Posted by KFBobInsanesMom

Matthew 6 : 7-8 7 "And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words. 8 "So do not be like them; for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.

The focus is on the " many words"/repetition. At least Matthew says it is.

Again, Jesus, being the son of Yahweh, could see into their hearts and knew that these Gentiles were trying to be heard SIMPLY BECAUSE of their "many words"...its all what is in the heart!