How Would Jesus Vote

Qingu · 10-14-2004, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saywhat?

So by being "pro Bible" we must advocate against abortion but for state sanctioned homicide as a penalty for a crime? Does Jesus fit into this "pro Bible" ideology? And if so, does He advocate capital punishment for criminal offenses?

I believe "just war" according to the Bible means putting all the men in the city to the sword ... unless God gives you the city, and then you have to kill the ladies and children and unborns and cattle and plants too. As for capital punishment, why do you think Jesus wouldn't stone a disobedient child, or someone such as myself, or force a miscarraige on a suspected adulteress? Surely he is God, and God would not contradict His word as written in the Old Testament? (Mat 5:17)

saywhat? · 10-14-2004, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qingu

I believe "just war" according to the Bible means putting all the men in the city to the sword ... unless God gives you the city, and then you have to kill the ladies and children and unborns and cattle and plants too. As for capital punishment, why do you think Jesus wouldn't stone a disobedient child, or someone such as myself, or force a miscarraige on a suspected adulteress? Surely he is God, and God would not contradict His word as written in the Old Testament? (Mat 5:17)

I do not think Jesus came to contradict His word in the Old Testament but to fulfill the law and prophets and expound on that law. He brought a new "law" of love, mercy, and grace over reactive violence which is shown in your examples above. He brought this new "law" as a filter for all of our actions. If we filter our actions through these three things our decisions and world will look quite a bit different than they do now. Unfortunaltely, followers of Christ, myself included, do not always use these things as a basis for our actions and reactions.

Qingu · 10-14-2004, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saywhat?

I do not think Jesus came to contradict His word in the Old Testament but to fulfill the law and prophets and expound on that law. He brought a new "law" of love, mercy, and grace over reactive violence which is shown in your examples above. He brought this new "law" as a filter for all of our actions. If we filter our actions through these three things our decisions and world will look quite a bit different than they do now. Unfortunaltely, followers of Christ, myself included, do not always use these things as a basis for our actions and reactions.

He said nothing, not one stroke of a letter, would change in the old laws before the end of heaven and earth.

Are you calling Jesus a liar?

Don't get me wrong, I think the old laws are barbaric and suggesting that they be re-instituted is absolutely insane. Of course, I am not bound by the words of the Bible.

saywhat? · 10-14-2004, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qingu

He said nothing, not one stroke of a letter, would change in the old laws before the end of heaven and earth.

Are you calling Jesus a liar?

Don't get me wrong, I think the old laws are barbaric and suggesting that they be re-instituted is absolutely insane. Of course, I am not bound by the words of the Bible.

No I certainly would not call Jesus a liar.

He said that the laws would not change but His idea, I believe, was to change the application of the law. What I mean is that if we use that filter, as I stated before, our application of that law will be drastically different.

Qingu · 10-14-2004, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saywhat?

No I certainly would not call Jesus a liar.

He said that the laws would not change but His idea, I believe, was to change the application of the law. What I mean is that if we use that filter, as I stated before, our application of that law will be drastically different.

I think you're filtering the words of the New Testament so you don't have to follow the despicable OT laws. (Although the NT has its own problems ... do you think women should be allowed to speak in church or wear jewelry? Are you opposed toslavery?)

I think Jesus, the man, as I put together his personhood through history, would probably be hippy-ish. But if you make the claim that Jesus is God, then I don't see Jesus shirking killing or oppressing people.

paat · 10-14-2004, 04:56 PM

i think you are ignoring the fact that Jesus would be Canadian...

saywhat? · 10-14-2004, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qingu

I think you're filtering the words of the New Testament so you don't have to follow the despicable OT laws. (Although the NT has its own problems ... do you think women should be allowed to speak in church or wear jewelry? Are you opposed toslavery?)

I think Jesus, the man, as I put together his personhood through history, would probably be hippy-ish. But if you make the claim that Jesus is God, then I don't see Jesus shirking killing or oppressing people.

I would on the Jesus as hippy statement! I believe that the Bible is best interpreted with context in mind. I do not think that all laws were to be imposed throughout history. There was a context for laws that pertained directly to a people at that time. Again, Paul was speaking in context specifically to that time. I am unable to prove God or His intention of scripture to you. I can interpret and share it as I believe it. I will not engage, either, in explaining your actions by what you say (i.e. i am "filtering the new testament"). Am I to understand that in your belief system you do not feel bound by the laws of this writing? If so the scripture is clear that it will appear as foolishness to you.

**+Donny** · 10-14-2004, 10:07 PM

Quote:

I think Jesus, the man, as I put together his personhood through history, would probably be hippy-ish. But if you make the claim that Jesus is God, then I don't see Jesus shirking killing or oppressing people.

Matthew 23-25 doesn't sound too hippyish.

Qingu · 10-15-2004, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by +Donny

Matthew 23-25 doesn't sound too hippyish.

A lot of Matthew isn't ... of course, you know I believe in source criticism ... half of Matthew is Mark, which is relatively hippy-ish, some more of it is Q, which is hippy-ish, and the rest appears to have been written by some Christian Jew who really disliked Paul.

John is extremely hippyish. (I've even heard interps. of John that have Jesus as a homosexual with his beloved apostle that lays on his lap ... although I think that's quite a stretch).

I really don't know aobut the real Jesus, though. The thing I'm most certain of about him is that he really was against divorce, since (if I remember) he mentions this in all sources (Q, Mark, Special M, Special L and John). So I guess it may be likely that he was a hard-line Matthew-style neo-Jew who wanted to enforce the old laws even more.

**+Donny** · 10-15-2004, 03:55 PM

I love the Q stuff. It makes me chuckle to myself

And all of them include the Olivet Discource, aside from John, who wrote Revelation, which is far from hippyish.