[LittleBassMan]

i've noticed the calvinism debate going on for a while now, but i still dont quite understand what calvinism is. please help me.

btw this is NOT a thread to debate calvinism, i just want some information.

[cowboy]

Calvinism is the belief that God has every action of every person every day mapped out completely. This means (to calvinists) that God elects some to go to heaven, and just arbitrarily decides to send the rest of them to hell. I have serious problems with this belief system, because I think it limits God to the way our finite minds work, but that's just my opionion.

[Luke]

"Calvinism is something much broader than the "five points" indicate. Calvinism is a whole worldview, stemming from a clear vision of God as the whole world's Maker and King. Calvinism is the consistent endeavor to acknwledge the Creator as the Lord, working all things after the counsel of His will. Calvinism is a theocentric way of thinking about all like under the direction and control of God's own Word. Calvinism, in other words, is the theology of the Bible viewed with the perspective of the Bible--the God-centered outlook which sees the Creator as the source, and means, and end, of everything that is, both in nature and in grace. Calvinism is thus theism (belief in God as the ground of all things), religion (dependence on God as the giver of all things), and evangelicalism (trust in God through Christ for all things), all in their purest and most highly developed form. And Calvinism is a unified philosophy of history which sees the whole diversity of processes and events that take place in God's world as no more, and no less, than the outworking of His great preordined plan for His creatures and His church. The five points assert no more than that God is sovereign in saving the individual, but Calvinism, as such, is concerned with the must broader assertion that He is sovereign everywhere."

--J.I. Packer

[Luke]

Originally posted by cowboy
I have serious problems with this belief system, because I think it limits God to the way our finite minds work, but that's just my opionion.

I have serious problems with the Arminian and in-between belief systems because they just aren't Biblical.

[cowboy]

NEITHER IS CALVINISM!

[trhoke]

Originally posted by cowboy
NEITHER IS CALVINISM!

So start a thread on calvinism and prove it.

[trhoke]

Cowboy,
How about you start going through these verses? You never made it through them all before (in the Tulip thread). Most of them talk about Total Depravity, although there are some about Unconditional election.

Genesis 6:5
Genesis 8:21
Job 42:2-3
Isaiah 46:10
Isaiah 53:6
John 3:19-21
John 6:65
John 10:14-30
John 17:6-12
Romans 3:10-12
Romans 8:6-8,29-30
Romans 9 (the whole chapter)
Romans 11:7
Ephesians 1:4-10
Ephesians 2:1-10
Colossians 1:12-14
Colossians 1:21-22
Colossians 2:13-14
Titus 1:15-16
Titus 3:4-7
Hebrews 2:10
Hebrews 9:14-15
Hebrews 12:2
James 1:18
1 Peter 1:3-4
1 Peter 2:9-10

[cowboy]

Do you people not remember that John Calvin was born long after Jesus Christ was born and died. All Calvinism is is a theory about how God thinks, and how His will is carried out. Luke chooses to believe a different theory than I do. Again, Calvinism is not biblical, but neither is my view, so take it for what it's worth.

[trhoke]

Originally posted by cowboy
Do you people not remember that John Calvin was born long after Jesus Christ was born and died. All Calvinism is is a theory about how God thinks, and how His will is carried out. Luke chooses to believe a different theory than I do. Again, Calvinism is not biblical, but neither is my view, so take it for what it's worth.

What is known as Calvanism has been accepted as truth long before Calvin was even born. I think perhaps your operating under some preconceived ideas, how about doing some homework before denouncing another view?

Calvanism is a worldview based on the Bible, it is generally not accepted because it puts God in the drivers seat instead of man. And if it wasn't grounded in Scripture I wouldn't believe it.

Btw, just because someone was born long after Jesus does that make his study of Scripture irrelevent?

And what do you mean your view isn't biblical?

[cowboy]

My view is that God is completely beyond our comprehension, not a finite mind, like what Calvinism teaches. And nowhere in the Bible does it say that. But also, nowhere in the Bible does it say that God chooses to send some people to hell, and some people to heaven. It says that man has the choice to accept Him or not.
2 more c

[trhoke]

Originally posted by cowboy
My view is that God is completely beyond our comprehension, not a finite mind, like what Calvinism teaches. And nowhere in the Bible does it say that. But also, nowhere in the Bible does it say that God chooses to send some people to hell, and some people to heaven. It says that man has the choice to accept Him or not.
2 more c

Completely beyond our comprehension? So should we not even bother trying to understand Him? After all He did give us His word, and revealed Himself through it (although He does not give us--nor can we have--exhaustive knowledge of Him). And no we do not teach that God has a finite mind, if that was the case He wouldn't be God.

Try Romans 9, and Ephesians 1:4-6 to start with. And as for man having a choice, I agree. But Calvanism says that man will not choose God; because of their sin nature they are hostile towards God and don't want to come to Him, and they cannot come to Him (Rom. 8:7).

He must first take out the heart of stone that cannot respond to Him, and give us a new heart of flesh, thus enabling us to willfully respond to Him (Ezek. 36:26).

More later (sorry to the guy who started this thread, we started a debate about it).

[cowboy]

Oh shoot, I said it wrong. I meant to say the way God thinks is completely beyond our comprehension, not what I said. Sorry for the confusion.

[Luke]

Originally posted by cowboy
NEITHER IS CALVINISM!

I second Tim's challenge...prove it. You haven't been able to do that, nor has anyone else.

[Luke]

Originally posted by cowboy
Do you people not remember that John Calvin was born long after Jesus Christ was born and died. All Calvinism is is a theory about how God thinks, and how His will is carried out. Luke chooses to believe a different theory than I do.

Why does this invalidate Calvinistic theology? First of all, the theology known as Calvinism dated back to at least Augustine in the fifth century, so your dating thing is invalid. Furthermore, it was taken from Scripture, which was the sme in 100 A.D, 500 A.D., and 1500 A.D. last time I checked.

Again, Calvinism is not biblical, but neither is my view, so take it for what it's worth.

Calvinism isn't Biblical? Prove it, the ball has been in your court since the TULIP thread.

And since when is what you said an acceptable response to a list of 25 Scripture passages?

[Luke]

Originally posted by cowboy
My view is that God is completely beyond our comprehension, not a finite mind, like what Calvinism teaches.

Please accurately represent the Calvinist viewpoint.

But also, nowhere in the Bible does it say that God chooses to send some people to hell, and some people to heaven.

Romans 9

It says that man has the choice to accept Him or not.

Which Calvinism does not deny.