[JerryLove]

The ones I already cited will suffice. Unless the war was unjust in the first place (and thus a sin), and as long as the killing is truly accidental, it is not murder.

Where are the Biblical rules for what makes a war just or unjust?

[Travis]

Some are contained in Deut. 20:5-15; these are guidelines for wars with the cities God was not giving Israel as an inheritance—the non-holy war wars, if you will. The guidelines for wars needing to be defensive come from other passages regarding killing between individuals—the principles of those laws can be applied to conflicts between nations as well.

[JerryLove]

The guidelines for wars needing to be defensive come from other passages regarding killing between individuals—the principles of those laws can be applied to conflicts between nations as well.

I don't agree that the rules for individuals apply to nations. Killing a bystander accidentally in a fight is murder under OT law. Killing a bystander accidentally in a war does not appear to be.

[Travis]

Firstly, accidentally killing a bystander in a fight is only murder if you are to blame for the fight. If you were attacked and had to defend yourself, it is not murder. Furthermore, you're really sort of missing what I'm doing, I think. The rules for killing between individuals (must be defensive) are being applied to nations in order to show us when we can go to war and when we cannot—I’m not trying to apply them to the individuals within the war.

[JerryLove]

Originally Posted by Travis

Firstly, accidentally killing a bystander in a fight is only murder if you are to blame for the fight. If you were attacked and had to defend yourself, it is not murder.

"If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely [5] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise."

Furthermore, you're really sort of missing what I'm doing, I think. The rules for killing between individuals (must be defensive) are being applied to nations in order to show us when we can go to war and when we cannot—I’m not trying to apply them to the individuals within the war.

So a nation can kill another nation if it was in the first nations house at night. A nation can also kill a child nation for being unruly (England warring with the US during the American revolution was correct)?

I'm sorry, I can't even find the metaphors. If one nation killes another than it should be put to death? What is "put to death" for a nation?

[Travis]

"Are fighting" =/= one man being attacked and defending himself.

Originally Posted by JerryLove

So a nation can kill another nation if it was in the first nations house at night. A nation can also kill a child nation for being unruly (England warring with the US during the American revolution was correct)?

I'm sorry, I can't even find the metaphors. If one nation killes another than it should be put to death? What is "put to death" for a nation?

I said I use the principle, not the exact specifications. The principle of the self-defense law for killing is to be applied to nations: they cannot attack another nation unless it is in self-defense. The "kill a child nation" comment is odd and totally out of place, given the fact that I was referring to the self-defense laws, not laws regarding civil punishment or execution.

[JerryLove]

"Are fighting" =/= one man being attacked and defending himself.

The Bible never specifies the reason for fighting. It also requires people who accidentally kill others to flee to avoid death.

I said I use the principle, not the exact specifications. The principle of the self-defense law for killing is to be applied to nations: they cannot attack another nation unless it is in self-defense.

I honestly cannot remember the "it's OK to kill in self-defense" rule but I will accept that it exists... never the less, this is only one of *many* reasons to kill in the Bible. You cant' reasonably say "the principles are the same" and then only have a single case where they are.

The "kill a child nation" comment is odd and totally out of place, given the fact that I was referring to the self-defense laws, not laws regarding civil punishment or execution.

Then why pluralize it... you are saying "of all the reasons that one individual can kill another, the only one which applies to nations is self-defense; and that's the only reason they can do it (other than because God commanded it, or because it fulfills the offer of God, or because they had good stuff that the Jews wanted).