satan's confusion

1moreSoul · 07-21-2004, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dream_Theater

The devil likes to disunite us so that our witnessing capabilities are weakened. How can someone believe what those Christians proclaim as the truth if they can't even be united with one another? "May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me."

Based on Jesus' prayer ( John 17: 20 - 23 ), I can only conclude that there are so many denominations because we let the devil into our churches. We live in confusion, not even recognizing truth. We need to refocus our attention on Jesus, and on Him alone. We need to lift up His Word and follow It.

The fact that there are so many denominations creates confusion in our world and weakens our testimony. After all, why should the world believe us when we can't even agree with one another?
Rob Chaffart.

I give satan equal credit, ultimately it is our choice but without satan there would be no division ... satan plants the seed and man bears it fruit. The Bible if we use a similar anology is like the perfect pizza recipe why then do we make slight changes? to make our lives more convenient? these perversions of the original recipe bring indigestion

amongst us ... its unrealistic but imagine a a single global church ... simply the church of the Bible perhaps where we all follow the word of God without corruption or confusion imagine the unity we would and should feel as Christians imagine it being more than a dream ...

thank you like I said and Sean if you think satan is not there and not attacking you everyday somethings wrong. Anyways the G12 is not a denomination it is a vision we have at our church. It helps us be effective in soul winning and in disicipleship. I don't know if you really want to just bring arguments or you are just like that. Yes it is partly our fault like Dream_Theater said we allowed satan into the church and mess up everything.

salvaged · 07-23-2004, 05:38 AM

Right on!! Right on!! Preach it!!!

If people wouldnt go against God's word, then we wouldnt have but one denomination. I would place most of that blame on satan's works through the people. I think that people follow what they want to follow,they only see what they want to see, put a name on it and call it church. Thats why there are so many dead church's today!!

1moreSoul · 06-20-2006, 02:06 AM

I Just wanted to say that unity is so important to the body of Christ and that's how so many denomonations came to be...Satan trying to divide the body of Christ, that's all, nothing else...And as the looks of how many denomonations on these blogs he is doing a good job...If we just took the time to study Psalm 133 where it speaks of how precious it is for brothers to dwell in unity...Satan is losing his power over us since the last time i posted. In my hometown of Albuquerque i play worship for this thing called 228 where we speak on unity and we have been to around 10 churches, and our churches are beginning to catch the vision of Unity...Satan IS losing his power of division over our city and we will persevere because with unity NOTHING is impossible...May you to catch the vision of UNITY!!!

Humility · 06-20-2006, 11:18 AM

i heard a friend of mine describe it like this one time...

the church has so many different denominations...is that necessarily a bad thing? the lutheran church has a bigger emphasis on saved by grace, the baptist church has more of an emphasis on baptism, the presbyterian church has more of an emphasis on calvinism, the pentacostal church has more of an emphasis on the Holy Spirit, the methodist church has more of an emphasis on methods (

) and so forth, and so forth. there only comes dissension when one church refuses to acknowledge that this church believes that. most of the churches have the same foundation (jesus christ, son of god, salvation...etc..) but have different things they emphasize. if they change the foundation, then that is when you have a problem.

1moreSoul · 06-21-2006, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Humility

i heard a friend of mine describe it like this one time...

the church has so many different denominations...is that necessarily a bad thing? the lutheran church has a bigger emphasis on saved by grace, the baptist church has more of an emphasis on baptism, the presbyterian church has more of an emphasis on calvinism, the pentacostal church has more of an emphasis on the Holy Spirit, the methodist church has more of an emphasis on methods (

) and so forth, and so forth. there only comes dissension when one church refuses to acknowledge that this church believes that. most of the churches have the same foundation (jesus christ, son of god, salvation...etc..) but have different things they emphasize. if they change the foundation, then that is when you have a problem.

Yep, i totally agree with this, the time I don't accept a brother who believes that Jesus Christ has died and rose again is the day i lost unity with the body of Christ...

Demon_Hunter · 06-21-2006, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1moreSoul

Yes there should be only one, but indeed satan has confused the Church and destroyed it. For example, let's say baptist or whatever, they are confused about worship, they kill the part about losing your pride jumping around for what the Lord has done, having a heart like David (Psalms) a worshipers heart

Yes. I have completely missed the spirit of worship because I dont jump about during worship. And 86yr old Toby just doesnt understand worship because he doesnt jump while Jose plays "The Old Rugged Cross".

I personally believe that Satan has very little to do with the division within the church. Like what Sean said, we naturally divide ourselves into groups of people who believe the same way we do. Its just in our nature (its how GOD made us!). Not that Im blaming God, but I do think its funny that in this thread we are trying to attribute something to Satan that God made to be naturally occuring in us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffrey

Satan has destroyed, that is, overcome the Church? This is news to me.

According to the bible Satan will never fully overcome the Church. So the idea that satan has destroyed the church is ridiculous.

1moreSoul · 06-21-2006, 06:11 PM

Yeah the Baptist thing was a bad thing to say, because some of my fav woship leaders are Baptist,but what i'm trying to convey is like how we're different in places and we always have to do something different and hold on to that, instead of realizing we are all for Jesus Christ (Well the ones that are) and stop arguing on it, and like i've said before, if you don't think satan is in on it then satan has you in the mind set that he want from Christians, because Satan's whole key is to divide the body of Christ so we don't function right...If our churches were united, the whole world would be saved...and with unity, NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE!!!

CaribouMaster · 06-21-2006, 07:26 PM

Why does it always have to be about Satan? Paul quoted Psalms when he said
Rom 3:10 as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;

Sure forgetting Satan can give him the advantage, but so can focusing on him. We are fallen creatures in a ruined world and have been for thousands of years now. Wouldn't always being able to say "I would have gotten away with it, if it wasn't for that meddling Satan" give him an advantage as well? Regardless of how much a "hand" he has in our sins, they are still ours.

Secondly, why can't something glorious come of our modern denominational system? God can use all for good. When two methodist churches and a baptist team up to raise money (as I have participated in), I see more unity than if one congregation happens to agree on everything. Finding one congregation that fully agrees is hard enough, let alone an entire faith. And in most cases, it's not because they're blatantly sinning; they just see it differently and are trying to act on their faith. Can you imagine trying to take a test on a book the size of the Bible, even if it wasn't as immensely deep as the Word? Notice the Romans quote: There is none who understands, and we never will in this life.

**nbfan** · 06-26-2006, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaribouMaster

Why does it always have to be about Satan? Paul quoted Psalms when he said
Rom 3:10 as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;

Sure forgetting Satan can give him the advantage, but so can focusing on him. We are fallen creatures in a ruined world and have been for thousands of years now. Wouldn't always being able to say "I would have gotten away with it, if it wasn't for that meddling Satan" give him an advantage as well? Regardless of how much a "hand" he has in our sins, they are still ours.

Secondly, why can't something glorious come of our modern denominational system? God can use all for good. When two methodist churches and a baptist team up to raise money (as I have participated in), I see more unity than if one congregation happens to agree on everything. Finding one congregation that fully agrees is hard enough, let alone an entire faith. And in most cases, it's not because they're blatantly sinning; they just see it differently and are trying to act on their faith. Can you imagine trying to take a test on a book the size of the Bible, even if it wasn't as immensely deep as the Word? Notice the Romans quote: There is none who understands, and we never will in this life.

You have a good point, but nobody is attacking other denominations. Sure we can work together as one, but what better way of doing it than actually laying aside our denominational walls?

CaribouMaster · 06-26-2006, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nbfan

You have a good point, but nobody is attacking other denominations. Sure we can work together as one, but what better way of doing it than actually laying aside our denominational walls?

That's my point; such working together is laying aside those walls. Denominations are an inevitability of the human condition. Show me a way to get everyone to believe the same thing about everything and I'll show you a Church without denominations (I'll also show you the day Christ returns). Where we triumph is when we can disagree on minor points of theology, meet separately at times with those whom we agree with, but then live as one knowing that we are one body made of many members with many opinions. To throw Satan back into the discussion, I assure you he is far more worried about what we do during the week with and to our brothers than the name on our church or what organization gets our donations.

**nbfan** · 06-28-2006, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaribouMaster

That's my point; such working together is laying aside those walls. Denominations are an inevitability of the human condition. Show me a way to get everyone to believe the same thing about everything and I'll show you a Church without denominations (I'll also show you the day Christ returns). Where we triumph is when we can disagree on minor points of theology, meet separately at times with those whom we agree with, but then live as one knowing that we are one body made of many members with many opinions. To throw Satan back into the discussion, I assure you he is far more worried about what we do during the week with and to our brothers than the name on our church or what organization gets our donations.

Ok, i see where you're going now. But isn't that the point of being Non-denominational?

Nate · 06-28-2006, 10:46 AM

"Being non-denominational" =/= "laying aside our denominational walls"

If anything, I think non-denominationals are the worst offenders of all.

It's like an atheist; he might claim "I'm laying aside my religious walls."

What he's really doing, though, is building new walls against all religion.

Non-denominationals, by fighting against denominations, are the same.

You're laying a new wall, against any person in any denomination at all.

Given ecumenicalism and non-denominationalism, I'll take ecumenicalism.

That's saying an awful lot, because I hate a lot of ecumenical ideology.

I'd rather be the Christian who says "The rest of you have a lot right..."

... than the atheist who says "All of you have almost everything wrong."

ICTHUS · 06-28-2006, 02:39 PM

...this thread is misguided in so many ways. We've "lost touch with worship" because we don't "jump around"?

Give me a break. Also, we give Satan too much credit. Humanity is depraved enough to cause some people to go onto a plane and blow it, the passengers, and themselves up with explosives with the aim of gaining Sikh independence from India (I'm referring to Air India Flight 182, my nation's largest terrorist attack, and equivalent to September 11, 2001 by proportion of the population killed (Canada's population is much smaller than the United States)) We're depraved enough to do anything, including mess up the Church.