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Unread 05-25-2007, 06:46 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by thesteve View Post
indeed. i've known a few folks who were good singers in choirs that managed to damage their voice enough that they can't sing anymore...and that was just from singing improperly

i've also met a few former high-school cheer captains who are now baritones because of the vocal damage from all of the yelling they did in high school.
It really is easy to damage your voice. One of the vocal majors at my school who has been taking lessons for years found out that she had nodules on her chords. Maybe I'm more careful than I should be, but I think better safe than sorry.

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Unread 05-26-2007, 12:01 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by snizzle View Post
Advice from the Snizz.
I keep trying to tell my brother the same thing, but he's convinced that screaming wont wreck his voice. I have noticed his voice getting worse though, but he says that he sings better because he can sing higher now. phh. whatever.

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Unread 05-27-2007, 12:41 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by conceived in fire View Post
It's the main complaint among the many people who dislike or hate Atreyu. I barely enjoy them at all anymore.
This is borderline flaimy don't make me delete it...

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I don't see how "a crazy lady with a DVD" has gotten so much good review among professional metal vocalists from bands like Underoath, All That Remains, Lamb of God, etc. I am of course talking about Melissa Cross.
Ask all those bands from the 80's most of which can't sing anymore... See... she'll help in the short term, I'm not saying that it wont... But all she does is delay then inevitable process of severing your vocal chords.

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As for damaging your voice, I believe I have a fairly good growl going, and it only causes mild irritation to do high screams (like old Haste the Day or Underoath). Never have I gotten near bleeding or hurting it, the only problem might be I don't have enough volume. The advice here sounds pretty crappy.
If you can even tell a moderate difference between normal and after scream then you've done some form of damage... you're mild irritation tells me that you've damaged your chords already and are continuing to do so... and if the pain starts to go away and you're not changing your technique then be even more afraid because that means scar tissue is forming...

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You should tell people to use their diaphragm, since that's how you're supposed according to experts. I also believe (but might be wrong) that's how you sing properly as well.
Yes... but the screaming sound is a direct effect of slamming your vocal chords together rapidly... That's how the damage is done.... breathing properly wont stop this from happening... it will however help you sustain notes and get better tone with less effort...
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Unread 05-30-2007, 10:13 AM   #64
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WHat technique would, say, Breaking Benjamin use? Sounds like he does the falsetto scream, not really pushing it with his gut but just making the low gurgle sound, and then eating the mic for volume. I wouldn't scream much at all, but I suppose it would be cool to have the ability to accent rock songs every now and then much like they do
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Unread 05-31-2007, 12:01 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Psalt12 View Post
WHat technique would, say, Breaking Benjamin use? Sounds like he does the falsetto scream, not really pushing it with his gut but just making the low gurgle sound, and then eating the mic for volume. I wouldn't scream much at all, but I suppose it would be cool to have the ability to accent rock songs every now and then much like they do
Definitely not a falsetto scream. Falsetto is the voice a guy makes that is out of his chest range... Every scream of theirs that I've heard was well within his range... in fact... he's a pretty low guy as far as screamers go.
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Unread 05-31-2007, 12:05 PM   #66
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The reason I thought it might have been falsetto is that it doesn't seem to be projected...he's up on the mic with his hand often enough cupped around/over his mouth/mic as well. He sings rather high and that's odd to me that his scream is so low all the time
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Unread 05-31-2007, 01:42 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Psalt12 View Post
The reason I thought it might have been falsetto is that it doesn't seem to be projected...he's up on the mic with his hand often enough cupped around/over his mouth/mic as well. He sings rather high and that's odd to me that his scream is so low all the time
He doesn't sing all that high... and they do that so that the full reverberation of the voice goes into the mic... either that or he does it out of habit...
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Last edited by Ax; 06-05-2007 at 10:17 PM.
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Unread 06-26-2007, 03:11 PM   #68
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Hey there!

New here, this talk on Melissa Cross caught my attention.

I have the Zen of Screaming, and want to buy the second. The first one isn't that great unless you know nothing about singing.

But the most important thing on her technique that was not even mentioned here, leads me to believe that everyone who claimed that had watched the dvd and does not believe it works, DID NOT WATCH IT.

I say that because those ones keep assuming slamming the vocal folds together is the ONLY way of screaming, and Melissa can't stress enough that's NOT the idea. She uses the false cords to produce the overdrive sound. In the extras of the dvd, there's a video shot of it. It means produce the sound as if singing, and modulate it AFTER the vocal folds.

Of course if you have poor singing technique, it will be only worse in screaming.

What i think most people who are so against screaming doesn't notice it's an extreme artform. If you told a doctor 500 years ago a man could run 100meters in less than ten seconds, he could say he'd hurt himself (just couldn't think of a better example now...i'm at work...hehehe). In other words, can a ballerine dance eithout hurting her toes? Or an athlete never over-force his muscles? They practice (responsibly) to their limits, and from my point of view that's the thinking going on screamheads. I'm not a screamer, but i think this is VERY valid. it would be so naive to think the singing technique would be the same for so many centuries, because i don't see NOTHING new unless on the extreme sounding/screaming things to vocal history.

What do you think?

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Unread 06-26-2007, 03:19 PM   #69
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There is no such thing as "false cords". The people posting in this thread aren't just spouting off crap to look cool. We have talked with vocal instructors and people of expertise. Not some lady that shows people how to scream through a dvd. Screaming is the slamming of vocal cords. There's no other way to produce such a sound as a scream. No one with training or any type of real vocal instruction would agree with you.

Also, I still see this Melissa Cross person as someone trying to make a fast buck off of people trying to sound like Underoath and Lamb of God.
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Unread 06-26-2007, 06:53 PM   #70
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There is no such thing as "false cords".
Melissa refers to them as false cords, realy it's just the falsetto.

And if the deffinition of this word "screaming" is "the slaming together of the vocal cords by forcing air out of ones lungs to produce a loud, raspy sound. This slaming together of the vocal cords will produce pain in the said vocal cords, and eventualy cause damage of the voice." Then we need to come up with another term to describe Melissa's idea of doing it.




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Unread 06-26-2007, 10:52 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by akaukal View Post
There is no such thing as "false cords". The people posting in this thread aren't just spouting off crap to look cool. We have talked with vocal instructors and people of expertise. Not some lady that shows people how to scream through a dvd. Screaming is the slamming of vocal cords. There's no other way to produce such a sound as a scream. No one with training or any type of real vocal instruction would agree with you.

Also, I still see this Melissa Cross person as someone trying to make a fast buck off of people trying to sound like Underoath and Lamb of God.
Have you watched the dvd part I talked about?

Also, did not say people are ignorant here. I questioned their despise to newer approaches of singing.

Anyway, i do not know if there is another term to what she calls the false cords, specially because english isn't my mother language (was born and live in Brazil). All i know it is just after the vocal folds. It generally takes a slight raising of the larinx (yeah, here definitely it is a sin for conservative ones) in order to make this next area of the throat shape the sound. See if someone can get you this video, i'm not so sure i'm making myself clear describing this stuff. The "distortion" is not like a old bluesman voice (vocal folds slamming), but like a cat "miow" crack sound added to a goodly sung note.

I'm not just defensing the screaming or anything, i wanna make you (all) understand what her idea is, because it seems most of you don't. Surely, you will have all the right to still disagree when it happens, though!



Let's try to make this point clear, if i couldn't explain it nicely.

Regards,

Alexandre
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Unread 06-26-2007, 11:13 PM   #72
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I've seen the video, I watched it with my friend's father... he's an Ear/Nose/Throat Surgeon. Word from him and from my former vocal instructor is that Melissa Cross is deceiving you if you think that you're not damaging your vocal chords...

"False Chords" isn't actually even a physical structure in the throat... Falsetto is created when the range of the vocal chord is maxed and the vocal chords are stretched really hard and I believe, the way it was described to me, is that only they top 1/4 of the chord is in use... that's how most people scream anyways...

Her DVD is based off false premises that people with little background in biology, especially concerning the throat, will believe because she shows them some stuff on a DVD... It's like Chriss Angel. His tricks aren't real, they're tricks but people believe they're real because they see him on television and he uses some really crafty showmanship.
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Unread 06-26-2007, 11:33 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by AXguitar View Post
I've seen the video, I watched it with my friend's father... he's an Ear/Nose/Throat Surgeon. Word from him and from my former vocal instructor is that Melissa Cross is deceiving you if you think that you're not damaging your vocal chords...

"False Chords" isn't actually even a physical structure in the throat... Falsetto is created when the range of the vocal chord is maxed and the vocal chords are stretched really hard and I believe, the way it was described to me, is that only they top 1/4 of the chord is in use... that's how most people scream anyways...

Her DVD is based off false premises that people with little background in biology, especially concerning the throat, will believe because she shows them some stuff on a DVD... It's like Chriss Angel. His tricks aren't real, they're tricks but people believe they're real because they see him on television and he uses some really crafty showmanship.
Thanx.

So...me and everyone else just have to live with it, i guess, and make the best to damage as little as possible. If our generations and the next to come work really hard, maybe in a million years our folds will have developed to take the scream easily.

=P

Alexandre
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Unread 06-26-2007, 11:37 PM   #74
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Thanx.

So...me and everyone else just have to live with it, i guess, and make the best to damage as little as possible. If our generations and the next to come work really hard, maybe in a million years our folds will have developed to take the scream easily.

=P

Alexandre
That's a very young thing to say... you do realize that when your older, the damage you do now, can actually cause you to go mute... it's happened before...
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Unread 06-27-2007, 12:00 AM   #75
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That's a very young thing to say... you do realize that when your older, the damage you do now, can actually cause you to go mute... it's happened before...
Take it easy!

It was just a "funny" way to say that people are gonna do it no matter what, so it's fair they try to make it as good as can be.

Don't forget that a poorly trained (clean-singing) singer MAY injury his voice more than a highly trained screamer. Or may not.

Young regards,

Alexandre
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