[JaytheK]

Originally Posted by conceived in fire

Finally - someone who knows what they're talking about.
Read some more on Melissa Cross, she's much more than "a crazy lady with a DVD". (btw, there's a Zen of Screaming 2)
Um...see my above post on how the pros do it.

Ummm...did you completely ignore my last post? Must I quote myself?

Originally Posted by JaytheK

Correctly me if I'm wrong, but all screaming, either by straining the throat or "properly" using the diaphram, is generated by the vocal chords slapping together, creating the harsh sound. The slapping together creates calluses over time, and these calluses eventually become nodes (if I remember correctly). Nodes are bad news for vocalists.

I just made a point in the arguement. Now it's your turn. If you have a counter-arguement to this, please respond. If you do not, please stop ignoring good advice and stop saying that screaming doesn't hurt your vocal chords.

[akaukal]

Originally Posted by conceived in fire

No he doesn't, because he sounds almost exactly the same live as on the album. And he would technically be growling, which is still screaming.

You do realize that they use vocal effects at concerts too? Man, everytime I mention something about a screamer using vocal effects I always get the reply you just gave me. It's really not hard to figure out.

Incredible? his scream is almost universally regarded as terrible. It only sounds bearable on their last album. And "never damaged his voice"? How do you explain the fact that at almost every concert he loses his voice and Brandon (drummer) has to finish up for him? (which means it's all dry heaving)

Yes incredible. I as well have seen them live like you had. The lead vocalist never did any singing. He strictly screamed while the drummer did all the singing. I enjoy his screaming style very much which is why I say incredible.

So every positive review is by some idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about.

Actually, probably yes. Because I can bet that most of the people buying that dvd are people in their teens to early adults thinking how cool it would be to scream that have never had any vocal instruction.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by conceived in fire

Incredible? his scream is almost universally regarded as terrible.

It looks like you just voiced your own opinion as something thats universally accepted.

[nate95366]

<--------- thinks that screaming is ridiculous, unsafe, and only preferable to really really bad singing (like the kind in AI tryouts).

[Ax]

To the OP: We've all stated our opinions, we've all cited some sort of evidence... Make the decision for yourself, the Vocal Advice thread has all the advice you need...

[snizzle]

So, as I'm getting increasingly more and more agitated with the fact that the vocals forum has morphed into a screaming forum I was considering just pulling the screaming tips from the VAT. There is no way to scream 'properly'. As someone else stated, even singing poorly (or incorrectly) can mess up your voice. The more i pursue my voice training I realize how intricate the voice is.

My voice teacher (whom I normally don't agree with) had an interesting comment during my last lesson. "Learning to sing is about unlearning bad habits". Your voice is the only instrument that you already have experience with. If you learn to play trombone at some point you're going to have to figure out how to make a sound. We are born making sounds with our voices. That's what it's there for. The problem is that we pick up lots of bad habits.

I'm not trying to strictly rule out screaming. If you sing a lot and you have had no training this is for you as well. Let's take the lead singer of Audio Adrenaline. They're retiring. Why? The main reason is Mark Stuart (i think that's the lead vocalist's name) can't sing anymore. After 10-15 years of being in Audio A and straining his voice by singing incorrectly, he's got to hang up his hat. I don't think anyone would think of him as a screamer, but the same lesson applies.

Get lessons. REAL one on one lessons. Not a DVD. Not some advice on the internet. After all..who am I anyways? Why should you trust me? Or anyone?

Every voice is different. Every voice is unique. Get an instructor that will help you understand how your voice works. And how you can get results you want with YOUR voice. Not some generic information on the internet or some DVD.

Closing thought: If you are going to scream (which, let's face it...you probably will) use a microphone. This part is in the VAT and I don't think anyone really picked up on it. If you can't afford/don't have a mic...DON'T SCREAM. You are not going to sound like any of the guys you're trying to emulate. They can't sound like they do without a mic. Do some of them use vocal effects (live and in the studio)? Yep. Probably most of them use at least some reverb. Do some of them just sing through the mic 'clean'. Probably. But they can't do it w/out a mic and a sound system. If you don't have one...don't do it.
-shane

[Ax]

Originally Posted by snizzle

All that Jazz!

Word to the Snizzmeister!

[Disciple Freak]

Thanks, Snizzle!!! I have always wanted to scream (mostly scream low). So THANKS A TON!!!!

[legendary_chin]

I am just wondering, when a screamer screams, is it loud or lower, I mean do they usually scream loud, or do they let the microphone amplify a small scream??

I dont really have much time to read this whole thread, so if this question has already been asked/answered, sorry..

[Ax]

Originally Posted by legendary_chin

I am just wondering, when a screamer screams, is it loud or lower, I mean do they usually scream loud, or do they let the microphone amplify a small scream??

I dont really have much time to read this whole thread, so if this question has already been asked/answered, sorry..

The tone comes from a loud scream... into a microphone of course...

[legendary_chin]

so its like actually screaming? I always thought that it was almost like a low volume, not tone, scream..thanks

[conceived in fire]

Originally Posted by akaukal

You do realize that they use vocal effects at concerts too? Man, everytime I mention something about a screamer using vocal effects I always get the reply you just gave me. It's really not hard to figure out.

I didn't realize all my posts were still here. Okay, I know that Ryan Clark sounds the same in person because of footage in a recording studio showing with nothing but his voice shown on camera. Maybe it sounds a little better with microphone distortion.

Originally Posted by Sean

It looks like you just voiced your own opinion as something thats universally accepted.

It's the main complaint among the many people who dislike or hate Atreyu. I barely enjoy them at all anymore.

I don't see how "a crazy lady with a DVD" has gotten so much good review among professional metal vocalists from bands like Underoath, All That Remains, Lamb of God, etc. I am of course talking about Melissa Cross.

As for damaging your voice, I believe I have a fairly good growl going, and it only causes mild irritation to do high screams (like old Haste the Day or Underoath). Never have I gotten near bleeding or hurting it, the only problem might be I don't have enough volume. The advice here sounds pretty crappy.

You should tell people to use their diaphragm, since that's how you're supposed according to experts. I also believe (but might be wrong) that's how you sing properly as well.

[MrCrabby]

Originally Posted by conceived in fire

As for damaging your voice, I believe I have a fairly good growl going, and it only causes mild irritation to do high screams (like old Haste the Day or Underoath). Never have I gotten near bleeding or hurting it, the only problem might be I don't have enough volume. The advice here sounds pretty crappy.

You should tell people to use their diaphragm, since that's how you're supposed according to experts. I also believe (but might be wrong) that's how you sing properly as well.

Understand this: You will not realize what damage you are doing to your voice until a few years down the road. Just because doing drugs causes me no ill effects now, it doesn't mean that it's not killing brain cells that I will miss later in life.

Be smart. Think about the future, not just what you are presently experiencing.

[akaukal]

Originally Posted by conceived in fire

I didn't realize all my posts were still here. Okay, I know that Ryan Clark sounds the same in person because of footage in a recording studio showing with nothing but his voice shown on camera. Maybe it sounds a little better with microphone distortion.

Virtually every screamer uses some sort of vocal effect on their voice. There is no way in hell that Ryan Clark is simply screaming into a microphone.

I don't see how "a crazy lady with a DVD" has gotten so much good review among professional metal vocalists from bands like Underoath, All That Remains, Lamb of God, etc. I am of course talking about Melissa Cross.

Hmm, let's see, how much do you want to bet that she's paying the bands to advertise for her?

As for damaging your voice, I believe I have a fairly good growl going, and it only causes mild irritation to do high screams (like old Haste the Day or Underoath). Never have I gotten near bleeding or hurting it, the only problem might be I don't have enough volume. The advice here sounds pretty crappy.

You have damaged your voice. You just don't notice it yet.

You should tell people to use their diaphragm, since that's how you're supposed according to experts. I also believe (but might be wrong) that's how you sing properly as well.

There's no such thing as a screaming expert. A real expert would tell you not to scream.

[thesteve]

Originally Posted by MrCrabby

Understand this: You will not realize what damage you are doing to your voice until a few years down the road. Just because doing drugs causes me no ill effects now, it doesn't mean that it's not killing brain cells that I will miss later in life.

Be smart. Think about the future, not just what you are presently experiencing.

indeed. i've known a few folks who were good singers in choirs that managed to damage their voice enough that they can't sing anymore...and that was just from singing improperly

i've also met a few former high-school cheer captains who are now baritones because of the vocal damage from all of the yelling they did in high school.