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Unread 03-08-2007, 03:04 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by presbystrat View Post
I was hoping we were done with the screaming. Wishful thinking. I hope it goes out of style soon before too many voices are ruined. Must we issue a Surgeon General's warning or something (not that this every stopped anyone from smoking but it's a start).
I doubt that Phil Labonte, Ryan Clark, Howard Jones, etc. have severely damaged vocal chords. There is a proper way to do it that does very little (if any) damage. If someone doesn't do it right, they might sound horrible like Alex of Atreyu (who should have lost his voice completely by now)

Every single review I've read says The Zen of Screaming is a good instructional video. And seeing as how Melissa Cross (who made it) worked with people like Phil Labonte and Spencer Chamberlain to improve their voice, I bet they're true.

What's more, if the thread starter was in a band that would be the next Living Sacrifice, Demon Hunter, All That Remains, KSE, etc. then I'd really hope he learns how to do it well.

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When you call anything with harsh vocals "screamo", it makes as much sense as calling anything with distorted guitar "heavy metal".

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Unread 03-08-2007, 03:09 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Disciple Freak View Post
this may sound stupid... but can someone tell me how to improve on screaming? i stink at it...
For the sake of your voice, please stop screaming! I don't care how cool it may sound to you, it is not worth getting vocal nodes.

I used to scream some, but then I learned the damage it does to your vocal chords. Since then I decided to never scream, and now, after some singing technique training, my singing voice is not too bad (I now sing in church). When I used to scream my singing voice was terrible.
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Unread 03-08-2007, 03:30 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by conceived in fire View Post
There is a proper way to do it that does very little (if any) damage.
The vast majority of valid vocal information I read said that no matter how you scream, you're still damaging your vocal chords. Most of the information saying that screaming could be done "properly" with no harm done came from adolecents who don't know what they're talking about, they just heard that it could be done properly from their friend who heard that it could be done properly from their friend...

Moreover, if a throat doctor's opinion means anything...
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Originally Posted by AXguitar View Post
I'm going to pre-empt some people here... There is a DVD that's supposed to teach you to scream without hurting your vocal chords... it's bogus... my friend got it for Christmas, our other friend's dad is an Ear-Nose-Throat doctor... Even after seeing this he's banned from screaming because the surgery required to reverse the damage of screaming is very expensive and very painful....
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Unread 03-08-2007, 03:38 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conceived in fire View Post
I doubt that Phil Labonte, Ryan Clark, Howard Jones, etc. have severely damaged vocal chords. There is a proper way to do it that does very little (if any) damage. If someone doesn't do it right, they might sound horrible like Alex of Atreyu (who should have lost his voice completely by now)

Every single review I've read says The Zen of Screaming is a good instructional video. And seeing as how Melissa Cross (who made it) worked with people like Phil Labonte and Spencer Chamberlain to improve their voice, I bet they're true.

What's more, if the thread starter was in a band that would be the next Living Sacrifice, Demon Hunter, All That Remains, KSE, etc. then I'd really hope he learns how to do it well.
Well, Ryan Clark uses some kind of voice over machine thingy. He's yelling quite low more than screaming. And, the guy from Atreyu never damaged his voice. His screaming is incredible. I've never heard him sing though. The drummer does the singing in that band.

And that Zen of Screaming thing.. it doesn't work. I urge anyone is interested in screaming NOT to check out that video. It doesn't teach you anything that is hard to figure out. In fact, a lot of it is similar to what is in THE vocal advice thread.
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Unread 03-08-2007, 08:38 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaytheK View Post
Most of the information saying that screaming could be done "properly" with no harm done came from adolecents who don't know what they're talking about, they just heard that it could be done properly from their friend who heard that it could be done properly from their friend...
Maybe what you've read. Professionals like Ryan Clark and Tim Lambesis talk about how to use the diaphragm and not use your throat. (which is why I doubt the vocal cords are damaged).
Quote:
Originally Posted by akaukal
Well, Ryan Clark uses some kind of voice over machine thingy. He's yelling quite low more than screaming.
No he doesn't, because he sounds almost exactly the same live as on the album. And he would technically be growling, which is still screaming.
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And, the guy from Atreyu never damaged his voice. His screaming is incredible. I've never heard him sing though. The drummer does the singing in that band.
Incredible? his scream is almost universally regarded as terrible. It only sounds bearable on their last album. And "never damaged his voice"? How do you explain the fact that at almost every concert he loses his voice and Brandon (drummer) has to finish up for him? (which means it's all dry heaving)
Quote:
And that Zen of Screaming thing.. it doesn't work. I urge anyone is interested in screaming NOT to check out that video. It doesn't teach you anything that is hard to figure out. In fact, a lot of it is similar to what is in THE vocal advice thread.
So every positive review is by some idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about.
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When you call anything with harsh vocals "screamo", it makes as much sense as calling anything with distorted guitar "heavy metal".

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Unread 03-08-2007, 08:57 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by conceived in fire View Post
Maybe what you've read. Professionals like Ryan Clark and Tim Lambesis talk about how to use the diaphragm and not use your throat. (which is why I doubt the vocal cords are damaged).
Correctly me if I'm wrong, but all screaming, either by straining the throat or "properly" using the diaphram, is generated by the vocal chords slapping together, creating the harsh sound. The slapping together creates calluses over time, and these calluses eventually become nodes (if I remember correctly). Nodes are bad news for vocalists.

I'm not saying that one can't delay the damage done to the vocal chords, I'm saying the damage is there no matter how "properly" you scream. I personally would rather have a voice that can carry a tune when I'm 35, but you can do whatever you want...
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Unread 03-08-2007, 09:08 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by JaytheK View Post
Correctly me if I'm wrong, but all screaming, either by straining the throat or "properly" using the diaphram, is generated by the vocal chords slapping together, creating the harsh sound. The slapping together creates calluses over time, and these calluses eventually become nodes (if I remember correctly). Nodes are bad news for vocalists.

I'm not saying that one can't delay the damage done to the vocal chords, I'm saying the damage is there no matter how "properly" you scream. I personally would rather have a voice that can carry a tune when I'm 35, but you can do whatever you want...
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Unread 03-08-2007, 09:25 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaytheK View Post
Correctly me if I'm wrong, but all screaming, either by straining the throat or "properly" using the diaphram, is generated by the vocal chords slapping together, creating the harsh sound. The slapping together creates calluses over time, and these calluses eventually become nodes (if I remember correctly). Nodes are bad news for vocalists.
I think(I don't take any vocal training so I can't be sure) vocal instructers tell you to stop if it hurts....Yes?...No? The way the dvd teaches it has no stress on your vocal chords, so you feel no pain whatsoever.
Those of you who aren't going to scream, good for you, practice your singing. For the ones that(like me)didn't take "You'll shread your chords" for an answer(I know it is expert advice but some people, including myself, choose to do it anyway), check out the DVD. It saved my voice(to the dissapointment of my family)
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Unread 03-08-2007, 09:29 PM   #39
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And that Zen of Screaming thing.. it doesn't work. I urge anyone is interested in screaming NOT to check out that video. It doesn't teach you anything that is hard to figure out. In fact, a lot of it is similar to what is in THE vocal advice thread.
I think you need to look at it again. The part where she talks about "the dump " is the most important thing. It took me a while to get it down, but I finally did.
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Unread 03-08-2007, 10:02 PM   #40
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I think(I don't take any vocal training so I can't be sure) vocal instructers tell you to stop if it hurts....Yes?...No?
No. My vocal instructor told me to stop, not when it hurts, but just to stop.

My friend's dad, who (again) is a Ear-Nose-Throat doctor said it's unsafe... He saw the DVD and said it was bogus. This is a man who has an operating room in his office... I'd trust him any day over some crazy lady with a DVD...
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Unread 03-08-2007, 10:27 PM   #41
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No. My vocal instructor told me to stop, not when it hurts, but just to stop.
I'm sure your friends dad knows what he is talking about, I didn't mean to say anything in anyone's(vocal instructer, docter, singer) offence. But according to this, than singing would do just as much damage as screaming the way described in the DVD.
Just what parts of it did your friends dad find wrong? You have to admit some of those techniques help alot with singing aswell.
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Unread 03-08-2007, 10:34 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by bass4christ27 View Post
I'm sure your friends dad knows what he is talking about, I didn't mean to say anything in anyone's(vocal instructer, docter, singer) offence. But according to this, than singing would do just as much damage as screaming the way described in the DVD.
Just what parts of it did your friends dad find wrong? You have to admit some of those techniques help alot with singing aswell.
What he's saying is that the only way to get the screaming sound is not just to work your vocal cords but to actually have them hit each other. This is the difference between the two, and it's the hitting that causes the damage.
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Unread 03-09-2007, 12:26 AM   #43
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What he's saying is that the only way to get the screaming sound is not just to work your vocal cords but to actually have them hit each other. This is the difference between the two, and it's the hitting that causes the damage.
Right... it is THE only way to get the screaming sound... therefore, the only way to get that sound is to damage your vocal chords...
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Unread 03-09-2007, 01:50 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bass4christ27 View Post
I think(I don't take any vocal training so I can't be sure) vocal instructers tell you to stop if it hurts....Yes?...No? The way the dvd teaches it has no stress on your vocal chords, so you feel no pain whatsoever.
Those of you who aren't going to scream, good for you, practice your singing. For the ones that(like me)didn't take "You'll shread your chords" for an answer(I know it is expert advice but some people, including myself, choose to do it anyway), check out the DVD. It saved my voice(to the dissapointment of my family)
Finally - someone who knows what they're talking about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AXguitar
I'd trust him any day over some crazy lady with a DVD...
Read some more on Melissa Cross, she's much more than "a crazy lady with a DVD". (btw, there's a Zen of Screaming 2)
Quote:
Right... it is THE only way to get the screaming sound... therefore, the only way to get that sound is to damage your vocal chords...
Um...see my above post on how the pros do it.
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When you call anything with harsh vocals "screamo", it makes as much sense as calling anything with distorted guitar "heavy metal".

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Unread 03-09-2007, 01:18 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conceived in fire View Post
Finally - someone who knows what they're talking about.
Read some more on Melissa Cross, she's much more than "a crazy lady with a DVD". (btw, there's a Zen of Screaming 2)
Um...see my above post on how the pros do it.
How can you be so sure of these things? Are you a doctor? Have you ever been to an Otolaryngologist? Have you had any sort of formal vocal training (aside from aforementioned DVD)?
I would venture to say that you have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about. I ask you to stop giving advice to people that can and will harm them.
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