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Unread 06-30-2004, 01:08 PM   #16
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ok, as stated earlier: Going through your churches system is not an option. It will sound like crap. Accoustic guitars, basses, keyboards, etc. can pull it off (although there are much better methods). Electric guitars cannot. Get a good amp or borrow one. Don't rely on a $100 practice amp to hold up in church. You get what you pay for.

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Unread 06-30-2004, 03:26 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snizzle

As for how to play elec guitar in a p&w band: The best advice i can give you is GET THE HECK OUT OF THE WAY! There are so many elec guitarist in p&w bands that take over and all they do is strum. Your job is to suppliment what's already going on. Best way to do this is to pick chords and stuff (instead of constant strumming), use different chord voicings, and do simple lead licks where there is a lull in the melody. You're just there to help out and be in the background. You are not the star. Also, you don't have to play all the time. Learn to pick your spots. Sometimes you sound a lot better when you don't play at all. Come in when the song needs something, stay out if you don't have anything to offer.
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You're a wise man, Shane. That's great advice.
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Unread 06-30-2004, 04:46 PM   #18
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That is fantastic advice, thanks for sharing it. I'm going to use that when I bring the strat to church this Sunday.
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Unread 06-30-2004, 05:01 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Major Tom
Yeah, HEAVY distorted rock tones would be a better description I guess. Stock strats aren't the greatest for that, but there are a lot models with humbuckers in the bridge.
That's exactly what I meant. The single coil pickups aren't good for hard rock sounds. They sound to twangy. But that's not what they were talking about anyway, so it doesn't matter now.
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Unread 06-30-2004, 06:53 PM   #20
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Well if you are serious about getting into electric guitar, it is worth the money to buy a decent guitar and amp first which will have a better resale value (Than something like a Squier Strat pack) and will not frustrate you in tuning and tone.
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Unread 06-30-2004, 07:18 PM   #21
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i agree with you all on this matter. the best thing to do is to save up until you have atleast $650 and go the used route. even though i didn't.
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Unread 06-30-2004, 08:24 PM   #22
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so you are saying i have to get an amp tha'ts at least 200? to compete with drum, guitar, keyboard, from my church speaker?

i mean does it really sound that bad? personally i am not a good musician so it wont sound that good anyway but i mean is it really that bad?

so if it is really that bad how big of an amp will i need?

well i have acoustic and i learned the basic strumming and just picked up a littel bit of it for fun. since we have acoustic guitar leading person at church i was interested in electric. i am not gonna play in a band or anything. i am just picking it up for fun and to play in my praise team. but yeah i will probalby keep the guitar for rest of my life for fun~ i am gona be pastor so i dont need to get a realllly really good oen or anything
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Unread 06-30-2004, 08:34 PM   #23
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Quote:
Cockroachthebob said:
Pedals. There are many different types of pedals. Until you understand how they work and what they do you should avoid them. The more gear you have the harder it is to learn to PLAY GUITAR.
That is some of the best advice I have seen in this thread. Get your electric style down, if you have a channel switching amp - set it up for 2 sounds and stick with that for a while. Listen to pro electric players' tones, as you go along decide what you want to sound like, and then begin to aquire pedals if desired after you know what they will do. The more stuff in your signal chain proportionally increases your chance of ending up with really bad tone...at least until you are more knowledgeable.

Good electric tone IMHO starts with a decent-or-better sounding guitar and a GOOD-or-better sounding amp, in the hands of a skilled player. My advice would be to get those 3 things going first. All the pedals and effect devices in the world won't make up for a deficit in any one of those.


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Unread 06-30-2004, 11:34 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Major Tom
That is some of the best advice I have seen in this thread. Get your electric style down, if you have a channel switching amp - set it up for 2 sounds and stick with that for a while. Listen to pro electric players' tones, as you go along decide what you want to sound like, and then begin to aquire pedals if desired after you know what they will do. The more stuff in your signal chain proportionally increases your chance of ending up with really bad tone...at least until you are more knowledgeable.

Good electric tone IMHO starts with a decent-or-better sounding guitar and a GOOD-or-better sounding amp, in the hands of a skilled player. My advice would be to get those 3 things going first. All the pedals and effect devices in the world won't make up for a deficit in any one of those.


I wish somebody would have told me this kind of stuff when I started. I bought a Digitech multi-effects pedal and played around with it and let it shape my tone for much too long. Going back to basics (Tube amp, guitar and compressor) i've learned alot on how to shape my tone with my playing and how to not rely on fancy effects to make up for a poor melody.
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Unread 07-01-2004, 11:12 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by seungk5
so you are saying i have to get an amp tha'ts at least 200? to compete with drum, guitar, keyboard, from my church speaker?
It's not really about price. You can spend $50 and find a great deal. Or you could spend $400 on a used line 6 spider like i did. Decide what sound you are gonna go for and then look for decent amps that can produce that tone. DEF. used, probably a tube amp.

Quote:
i mean does it really sound that bad? personally i am not a good musician so it wont sound that good anyway but i mean is it really that bad?
Yes, it really is THAT bad. Ask some other people in your church, or you could even try it if ya want. Just don't do it for Worship. The sound is just, weak, for lack of a better word. It just doesn't sound right and it will distract people from worship.

Quote:
so if it is really that bad how big of an amp will i need?
If you can find something with a line out then it really doesn't matter because then you can go through the system. It's just that you have to have something in the middle to shape the guitar's tone. There are processers that you can buy that will do that. Line 6 pod comes to mind. But then you have nothing to practice with at home.

You could even find a decent amp W/out a line out and just have them mic it. Lemme look at MF in a sec and see if i can find a half decent amp for under $200.

Quote:
well i have acoustic and i learned the basic strumming and just picked up a littel bit of it for fun. since we have acoustic guitar leading person at church i was interested in electric.
awesome! Good thinking. Too many accoustic players on stage is never a good thing. It just gets muddy and it's pretty pointless.

Quote:
i am not gonna play in a band or anything. i am just picking it up for fun and to play in my praise team. but yeah i will probalby keep the guitar for rest of my life for fun~ i am gona be pastor so i dont need to get a realllly really good one or anything
Whoa. Back up the truck. You are in a band. You are leading worship. Why would you not want to give God all that you can? I'm not saying that God wants you to go out and buy a PRS and a marshall stack. I'm saying that you sound like this is just some side project that you are doing to kill time. You are getting the awesome experience of worshipping God, IMHO, in the coolest way possible: music.

Also, you get what you pay for. And you will regret it if you buy crap. If you decide not to play in a few years it will have hardly any resale value and it wont sound good enough for you to want to keep it.


Bottom line: reexamine why you are doing this and if you are willing to put in the time and money that this requires. (Ask anyone on the board. It takes a LOT of time and a LOT of money. Amen? ) Pray about it. If this is what God is calling you to do go out and get the best you can and give it all back to Him. It's all about rockin for Jesus dude.
-shane
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Unread 07-01-2004, 11:38 AM   #26
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Quote:
DarylB said:
I wish somebody would have told me this kind of stuff when I started. I bought a Digitech multi-effects pedal and played around with it and let it shape my tone for much too long. Going back to basics (Tube amp, guitar and compressor) i've learned alot on how to shape my tone with my playing and how to not rely on fancy effects to make up for a poor melody.
Dude, don't feel bad about that - I think everyone does that at in some way or another at first, you should feel really good about yourself for having a good enough ear and musical sense to see the light! There are guys MY age that have been playing over 20 years who still don't get that, and some of 'em are even really good players. Now THAT is sad.


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Unread 07-01-2004, 11:41 AM   #27
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Ok, granted i don't know that much about amps and a lot of this stuff is biased but here are a few smaller end models that would do you ok:

MG10CD Combo Amp
MG15CD 15 Watt Combo
25R Frontman™ Series II Guitar Combo
Galaxie 10 Tube Combo

Search any of them on www.musiciansfriend.com and you can see them. I believe they range in price from about $69 to around $200. This is just a few and i don't really know what i'm talking about so i'm sure some other people will have better options. However, i'm a huge fan of marshalls and all of these have line outs. So check em out.

As for guitars:

JS1 Electric Guitar
Daisy Rock Electric Guitar <- haha, just kiddin. But that's kinda cool eh?
Jackson JS-20 Dinky Electric Guitar
Fender Esquire Custom GT
Fender® Blem Standard Strat® Electric Guitar

Ok, that's w/out really looking hard. The most expensive is just under $300 and the cheapest is about $180 i think. I haven't played any of these. I'm a fan of Jacksons so i think you would be all right there. I haven't played the esquire but i've been wanting to for a while. And you can't go wrong with the standard strat. The blem is probably like a scratch or something. Look for that kinda stuff.

What i can say is this:

No squires. They are cheap but they look nice. They even boast about being fenders. They're just a bunch of posers. You'll regret it if you get one. Just say no.

No ibanez's. In your price range all Ibanez's are crap. I've got a Gax170 and i hate it. Loved it when i started but grew to hate it. They sound ok, but you could do a LOT better for your money.

I'll keep looking around. But these are just a few things to think about. I'm sure guys will come behind me and make corrections and better suggestions, so soon you'll have a lot of good stuff to choose from!
-shane
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Unread 07-01-2004, 11:42 AM   #28
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oh! how do you feel about e-bay?
-shane
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Unread 07-01-2004, 11:46 AM   #29
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hmm ic

then about "line out" or "processors"

if i have those in the middle than i can still use the church sound system right? and plug it in there. about how much are they? cause i would rather have that at church and have a small amp at home to practice separately.


Quote:
Also, you get what you pay for. And you will regret it if you buy crap. If you decide not to play in a few years it will have hardly any resale value and it wont sound good enough for you to want to keep it.
wait so if i buy a guitar now, it sounds bad later? so i probably want to sell it? rather than keeping it?
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Unread 07-01-2004, 11:52 AM   #30
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no dude. If you buy a CHEAP guitar now it will have no resale value. I've got like 7 guitars. I don't ever sell my stuff. It doesn't sound bad later when you buy cheap stuff. It sounds bad when you get it, you just don't realize it yet. The better you get, the more you realize that you are outgrowing your guitar. The moral? Get a good guitar now, one that will grow with you and you will not regret it.

As for a processor for church and a amp to practice at home? That will cost you at least around $200 for both. For that you might as well get a decent amp. That way when you practice at home it will sound the same at church. If you play with one amp at home and something else at church the differences in sound may throw you off a bit.
-shane
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