[sicklesj]

Originally Posted by ICTHUS

A minor note - they deny that Chrismination (Confirmation), Holy Orders, Penance, Matrimony, and Annointing of the Sick are sacraments.

Traditional Anglican Catholics believe( in the words of my Bishop): "The other five Sacraments - Holy Confirmation, Holy Matrimony, Holy Orders, Holy Absolution or Penance,
and Holy Unction are called Sacraments of Grace because they have been implied by
Scripture and we received them and adhere to them but they are not required of anyone or necessary to salvation. They are, however, important to the Christian as they apply in his or her relationship with the Lord." Only Baptism and Holy Communion are commanded by Christ
- "directly by the Lord saying that they are necessary to Salvation.

John

[ICTHUS]

This is kind of a weird, off topic note, but I visited an Anglican church today for their choral Eucharist (St. Georges Cathedral, Kingston, Ontario) and the Canon who celebrated seemed to shrug off the Thirty-nine Articles saying that they weren't really held to in the Anglican Church....

[Athanasius]

Originally Posted by ICTHUS

This is kind of a weird, off topic note, but I visited an Anglican church today for their choral Eucharist (St. Georges Cathedral, Kingston, Ontario) and the Canon who celebrated seemed to shrug off the Thirty-nine Articles saying that they weren't really held to in the Anglican Church....

Generally speaking, neither is Holy Scripture.

[benguitar16]

Do episcopals pray to mary like Catholics? I never understood this practice. Where in the Bible does it instruct us to do this? Is it there or am I just ignorant in this area? It makes more since to me to pray to God.

[ICTHUS]

Originally Posted by benguitar16

Do episcopals pray to mary like Catholics? I never understood this practice. Where in the Bible does it instruct us to do this? Is it there or am I just ignorant in this area? It makes more since to me to pray to God.

With the answer to your first question, the answer is "Sometimes". Some High Anglicans do.

As for your second question, most of the Anglicans in this forum are Reformed Protestants. As such, you're going to get a somewhat biased answer. Why don't you go ask in the Roman Catholic forum?

Edit: Also, as a caveat, I'd appreciate it if you'd capitalise the Blessed Virgin's name. She at least is owed as much respect as our linguistic customs allow her.

[chaiyah]

Originally Posted by fivesolas

In the US, use of the Missals and late medieval "devotions" obscure the solid, though moderate, reformation base of Anglicanism. I know of Anglo-Catholics who would say "amen" to John-Paul's idolatrous prayer! I repudiate all prayers to the Departed. Such is not Anglican custom. While I know Anglicanism is a "big tent", I would like to see the Anglo-Catholics run off to Rome where they can freely kiss and lick statues.
In this country, some way has to be found for making the Articles a doctrinal requirement. Bishops, also, need to have the wherewithall to forbid Anglo-Catholic parishes from mimicking Rome. This is especially true concerning the sola gratia and sola fide of the Articles!

...What appears to be happening is that people are getting confused between ideas and behavior.
...I frankly don't give a hoot what ideas you happen to be carrying around in your head when I meet you; I will judge you by your behavior.
...YHVH's Holy Law is a document about behavior, what is permissible to make and do and express and act out and act on. It is not a document that prosecutes human beings for thought sins.
...Free Will MEANS we get to think our thoughts, doesn't it?
...If you believe the world is FLAT, yet you operate from the archetype that Jesus ["Yeshua," actually] articulated in the Sermon on the Mount, of what account is your belief, on Judgment Day? Zip.
...Believe what you will, it is whether you minister to the sick and the old and the young and the confused and the incarcerated, and whether you keep yourself without spot from the corrupted world--that's what's important.
...All the protestations over rules and process are the straining at gnats and swallowing camels that Jesus condemned. We have to look at the behavior of the people we place in leadership positions. And if that behavior is not lawful by the Standards of JESUS--we have erred in our acceptance of corrupted leadership.
...We must pray for forgiveness and the Truths that will lead us all back to clarity about our mandates, and away from personal sins--which are always very costly and involve us in suffering.
...After all, being law-full also is a ticket to being happy, healthy and whole.

--chai

[Nate]

Originally Posted by chaiyah

....I frankly don't give a **** what ideas you happen to be carrying around in your head when I meet you; I will judge you by your behavior.

Please be careful using profanity (even censored profanity) on our site. While we do not have an explicit rule against it, it generally causes problems and we try to keep it to a minimum.

Thanks, and welcome to CGR!

In His love,
Nate

[chaiyah]

Oh, I'm sorry. I used four *'s to make a place for whatever expression a person might want to use. I wasn't aware there was a censor here, so I censored myself.

It could have been "hoot."

[Nate]

Originally Posted by chaiyah

It could have been "hoot."

That works for me. I'll change it.

In His love,
Nate

[chaiyah]

. . . that makes everybody take one look and run away?

. . . Eeek. I come here to chat about what jazzes me: theology.

. . . What is there that I have said that intimidates people?

chai

[Ridley's Own]

Originally Posted by chaiyah

What is there that I have said that intimidates people?
chai

Nothing, really. This is a sparsely read/written in forum, so don't expect an immediate reply.

Last Friday, the Admin. of the entire Forum decided to close the Theology and Apologetics forums for two months. Most of the Episcopalians/Anglicans who post here also post in both of the other closed forums. More than likely, while the closed forums are still closed (till 15 Dec.), the posters here will also be on sabbatical.

[Mike Graham]

Originally Posted by chaiyah

...What appears to be happening is that people are getting confused between ideas and behavior.
...I frankly don't give a hoot what ideas you happen to be carrying around in your head when I meet you; I will judge you by your behavior.

Fivesolas was posting on behavior, specifically things like idolotry.

Our faith is not worthless, nor is it seperate from behaviour. James tells us that we are to show our faith by works.

Originally Posted by chaiyah

...YHVH's Holy Law is a document about behavior, what is permissible to make and do and express and act out and act on. It is not a document that prosecutes human beings for thought sins.

We are indeed defiled by evil thoughts.

Matt 15:19-0
For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders. These are the things which defile the man; but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile the man.

Understandably, God's civil law did not punish them, only God can detect them, and man was enforcing the civil law. This would make sense with James's saying that we are to show our faith with works: we are showing it to those around us. I would hardly think it means that thoughts are unimportant.

Originally Posted by chaiyah

...Free Will MEANS we get to think our thoughts, doesn't it?

And choose our acts, no?

Originally Posted by chaiyah

...If you believe the world is FLAT, yet you operate from the archetype that Jesus ["Yeshua," actually] articulated in the Sermon on the Mount, of what account is your belief, on Judgment Day? Zip.

The thing is, in that sermon Jesus addresses right thought and having faith.

In the only record we have of Jesus actually talking about what that day will be like, He tells the "goats" who He is casting out, "I never knew you." If we think Jesus is someone He is not, how can we rightly claim to know Him?

Originally Posted by chaiyah

Jesus ["Yeshua," actually]

If I'm not mistaken, the Apostles use His name translated to Greek in their writings; I don't see why we should use His Hebrew name to refer to Him today. Can you explain this to me?

Originally Posted by chaiyah

...Believe what you will, it is whether you minister to the sick and the old and the young and the confused and the incarcerated, and whether you keep yourself without spot from the corrupted world--that's what's important.

Loving and serving others is not the most important thing; it is the second most important thing.

Originally Posted by chaiyah

...All the protestations over rules and process are the straining at gnats and swallowing camels that Jesus condemned. We have to look at the behavior of the people we place in leadership positions. And if that behavior is not lawful by the Standards of JESUS--we have erred in our acceptance of corrupted leadership.
...We must pray for forgiveness and the Truths that will lead us all back to clarity about our mandates, and away from personal sins--which are always very costly and involve us in suffering.

Amen.

Originally Posted by chaiyah

...After all, being law-full also is a ticket to being happy, healthy and whole.

In this life? Where does the Bible claim that?

Was Jesus lawful? He was a man of sorrows, died a painful death, broken for His people.

Is a servant greater than the Master?

[chaiyah]

By obedience to the Commandments, we are spared from disease, from family discord, from poor public health, from business fraud, from ethical gaffs that cause us long-term financial losses.

If you don't know what is in the Law and you are curious, see

http://www.abidemiracles.com/2728.htm

Being half-Jewish, I tend to take these principles seriously because they work for good, despite the fact that I have no recourse when other people FAIL to adhere to Law, except to forgive and turn the other cheek.

This is because I chose to follow Yeshua--who also followed the Law--but His sacrifice put away all the retributive elements in the Law. There is no longer a justification for ethnic cleansing, nor for stoning anybody to death, right?

Okay. But that doesn't mean the rest of the Law doesn't stand HIGH.

chai

BTW, if you want to call me by my name as it is given in some other language, I will not recognize your call. Thus, I "call on" God whose Name alone is Yahweh [YHVH--yes the "v" sounds like "w" as in German] and I call the Messiah by the name by which HE WAS KNOWN, which never had a "j" in it at all. Hebrew has NO "j." Both YHVH and Yeshua are alive and well and know what their names are supposed to sound LIKE.

Matt 5; 1Jo 5:3; Ps 1:1