[Jared]

Originally Posted by texandawg1288

Clinton was on of the worst presidents, did you want someone who cheated on his wife in the office?? He did such a terrible job on everything

...peace, prosperity, record surpluses, lowest unemployment ever recorded in recent history (4%), trade deals with China and NAFTA, etc. He is responsible for the longest economic boom in US history. At the end of his 2nd term, our GDP was 1/4 of the world's entire economic output. He was able to save Social Security. Sounds like a pretty good job to me. Cheating on his wife, while deplorable, does not tarnish his record as one of the greatest Presidents in recent history.

Originally Posted by texandawg1288

Saddam was treating people in his country very badly and was a evil guy so we took care of him.

So how does this correlate with "defending ourselves?"

[QUOTE=texandawg1288]
Some did... others keep explodoing themselves to kill us. Others are marching in the streets burning us in effigy. Others have armed themselves and are killing our troops.

Originally Posted by texandawg1288

Oh i forgot about his army and his staff sorry!

Actually, Saddam's staff and royal army crumbled very quickly. We are battling civilian militia who want us to leave.

Originally Posted by texandawg1288

Um I don't see you paying that amount of money. That money is used for that instead of sending it to help some crazy enviromenalist or something. And gas doesn't just come from Iraq. If we leave right now than their government may be worse than when we came over. We got to finish the job, operation endure freedom.

Jerry and I are paying $2 bucks a gallon for gasoline. That's the most expensive gas has ever been. I would rather the government pay for Medicare and create some jobs with money than send it overseas to pay for their gasoline. Hell, I'd rather them send it so some crazy environmentalist.

And exactly how and when do we finish the job? Are we going to stay there for 200 years until they've gotten democracy right? We haven't even gotten it down in the US.

[joab05]

Travis, I posted this in another thread but you didn't respond (probably because that thread was so busy it was easy to miss stuff).

But you keep keying on that one statement by Bush. My question for you is have you ever sinned by saying something sinful? Depending on whether or not you believe in eternal security, his sinning does not affect whether or not he is a Christian. I don't see a pattern of sin in his life, or openly living in contrary to God's Word. Given that, I believe that he is a Christian.

[Travis]

Originally Posted by joab05

Travis, I posted this in another thread but you didn't respond (probably because that thread was so busy it was easy to miss stuff).

But you keep keying on that one statement by Bush. My question for you is have you ever sinned by saying something sinful? Depending on whether or not you believe in eternal security, his sinning does not affect whether or not he is a Christian. I don't see a pattern of sin in his life, or openly living in contrary to God's Word. Given that, I believe that he is a Christian.

(A) I have sinned in similar matters (i.e., denying Christ in one way or another, whether through word or deed). The problem, though, is that Bush has a history of doing these sorts of things. Fairly recently he and Laura bowed before a Shinto shrine in Japan. Here's a photograph of him signing the book at the shrine after he and his wife performed the rituals of Shinto worship before it (bowing and the clapping of hands):



President Bush needs to publicly renounce his statement about God and the false god and idol Allah, since this was a public statement, to which virtually any literate person in the world is privy. Moreover, he should publicly repent of this henious sin of idolotry, mentioned above, and reform his views on abortion and homosexuality (not to mention war).

(B) I do believe in eternal security. I also believe in judging professing believers by the fruit they bear. Bush has a very shady history. Go here and scroll down to the part where it lists offenses of Bush in the areas of homosexuality, abortion, and offenses explicitly against orthodox Christian doctrine.

[JerryLove]

Clinton was on of the worst presidents, did you want someone who cheated on his wife in the office??

How does cheating on your wife make you a bad President? Is my doctor a bad surgeon if he worships a false idol? Is my mechanic no good with cars if he's homosexual?

He did such a terrible job on everything

Such as?

You: defending ourslelfs is so wrong

Me: I'm unaware of Saddam attacking the US.

You: Saddam was treating people in his country very badly and was a evil guy so we took care of him.

I don't see how you have addressed my point. This response is non-interactive.

Oh i forgot about his army and his staff sorry!

Actually, the first group that came to mind were the Mehdi Army militia of Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr... that would be a large, obvious, and named group. There are many, many others.

Um I don't see you paying that amount of money. That money is used for that instead of sending it to help some crazy enviromenalist or something. And gas doesn't just come from Iraq. If we leave right now than their government may be worse than when we came over. We got to finish the job, operation endure freedom.

The US is currently spending 500,000,000 per year in our tax money to lower the cost of gasolie (to $0.05 per gallon) in Iraq while people here are paying closer to $2.00.

China now has the same missiles as the US because of Clinton

Which missile are you thinking of?

we lost the Panama Canal

Actually, that treaty was signed in 1977 under carter and went into effect (as planned) during the Clinton administration.

the School Systems went haywire, he tryed to disarm the citizens, our military hated him

Can you be specific? Can you offer any support?

and then he knocked up Lewinsky.

No, he recieved fellatio from Ms.Lewinsky.

He lied about his military service

Cite please.

he comprimised our National Security (hince 9/11)

There was a previous attempt to blow up the WTC by alQuida which occured 2 months into his Presidency and which was similarly unknown to intelligence. If you think that this was his fauly, then you must certinly blame Bush for 9/11 (9 months into his administration). If, on the other hand, you blame the previous admin, you must blame Reagan/Bush for the first attack (which failed merely because the terrorists parked the truck in the wrong space).

and if you favore Clinton over Bush because of this 'war' please remember that Clinton bombed Hussien after Saddam stoped the WMD inspections, Clinton had NO PROOF of WMD but bombed Saddam anyways.

That was not a war, and he bombed him punitively specifically for kicking out inspectors. Reagan did the same in Lybia.

So what, do you think, caused Saddam to get mad at the US of A????

First guess? Us supporting Iraq's enemy Iran until the revolution. More specifically? Probably us attacking his country and kicking him out of Kuwait (hey, that was under Bush wasn't it?).

Then he sent our troops to Bosnia, and watch Black Hawk Down to see how that went.

"Black Hawk Down" describes a raid in Somalia. Do you know any actual facts?

Clinton reaped the benefits of the trickle-down-effect of the Reagan/Bush era, and now Bush is having to deal with the trickle-down-effect of Clintons goofs.

Again, support your claim.

[Wheatmeister]

Originally Posted by texandawg1288

This is my first time to this section of the forums and I just started laughing. I'm reading all this junk about certain people mad about about (a christian) being in the white house and the war in Iraq. OK listen up if you don't like what this nation is doing, then LEAVE. Go to another country thats better than the United States, good look finding one. All the freedom we have, the money we have, finally got clinton out and a good christian in and all yall do is complain, makes me laugh. Some of yall aren't like this, so this isnt for you. But there is some of yall that just crack me up. I'm serious. I'm serious if you are gonna complain so much like little babies about what bush is doing and how the war is so evil, and defending ourslelfs is so wrong then find a better country. If yall don't remember all the people that were in Iraq that escaped to the U.S rejoiced when the found out that we were taking over and getting a better government for the Iraqi people. So like I said don't like it here, leave.

It must be nice to be so idealistic and (I'm assuming here) young. I'll explain this in the simplest, most gentle way I know how:
It is my right, indeed my civic responsibility, to stand up and voice my dissent to policies I feel are detrimental to US national interests. That duty increases ten-fold in times of war because the stakes are higher and the loss of life greater. These are not idle complaints. They are reasoned, genuine concerns about the future of this country, MY country. I will not leave and I will not back down, because I have the right to express my opinion. So do you. However, in the future, I hope you will be more accepting of opinions aside from your own. I will stand up and defend until the ends of the earth your right to stand up and proclaim an opinion I happen to despise. I would hope I could expect the same from you.

[Jas de F]

Originally Posted by JerryLove

The US is currently spending 500,000,000 per year in our tax money to lower the cost of gasolie (to $0.05 per gallon) in Iraq while people here are paying closer to $2.00.

more than that in some places. in the Sacramento area in California the average price for unleaded gasoline is $2.25 a gallon. cheap gas is $2.15 a gallon, but that's only at Arco.