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Unread 06-11-2004, 02:08 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by KeyboardFreak
Do you own all of those Passion albums, Luke?

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All but Sacred Revolution (thus the note at the bottom).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanspeer
Quite a list, and I'd have to agree that I dislike almost all that you've listed. I'm not sure why you listed a song such as "The Heart of Worship" however. Is there something wrong with rejoicing because "I've found Jesus" and praising Him for it? I don't do that song at church however and have no plans on doing so, but I'm confused as to your rationale for those two.
I find that a lot of times regarding The Heart of Worship, the emphasis isn't on the fact that worship should be Christ-centered ("and it's all about You") but rather on this idea that we've somehow attained that ("I'm coming back..."). Also, and this may just be my particular experience with congregations growing up, but it was an uber-feely song everywhere I ever heard it played, and that sort of thing drives me nuts. That's why I'd also never run I Could Sing of Your Love Forever even though I don't really object to the song itself--same for I Can Only Imagine--although I'm wondering if MercyMe was thinking about the whole "no mind has conceived" thing when they wrote that song. The Bible says that even what we imagine regarding heaven will fall vastly short.

Regarding I've Found Jesus--first of all, I'm a Calvinist, so that objection should be obvious. Saying "I've found Jesus" makes it sound like we deserve some of the credit for it. Also, it's just a stupid song.

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Unread 06-11-2004, 03:13 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke
That's why I'd also never run I Could Sing of Your Love Forever even though I don't really object to the song itself--same for I Can Only Imagine--although I'm wondering if MercyMe was thinking about the whole "no mind has conceived" thing when they wrote that song. The Bible says that even what we imagine regarding heaven will fall vastly short.

Regarding I've Found Jesus--first of all, I'm a Calvinist, so that objection should be obvious. Saying "I've found Jesus" makes it sound like we deserve some of the credit for it. Also, it's just a stupid song.
I agree on the I've Found Jesus bit. that song bugs the heck out of me. I'm not a Calvinist but I believe the whole people only come to God when He first comes to them type idea so therefore the credit is still entirely His. Plus a lot of the places I've gone that play this song, the congregation does some stupid high pitched squeal thing everytime after they sing "I've found Jesus" and it bugs me.

And yeah there is a HUGE danger with playing emotional songs. People tend to say it's the Holy Spirit moving in them when it can just as easily be the way the guitar is hitting the chorus. It's like Be Unto Your Name or Above All they're highly emotional songs especially when you start the chorus. What with the minor chords going into the chorus (or as I call them, heart tugger chords) I still like all the songs mentioned (minus I've found Jesus) but you need to be careful when using such songs.
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Unread 06-11-2004, 11:14 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke
...first of all, I'm a Calvinist...
That explains alot.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke
...I grew up on your kind of music..
and I grew up on yours....


What it all boils down to is this...who/what are you worshiping? Who are you leading in worship? and how are you leading worship. Can it even be called 'Worship'? Hey, as long as it gets ppl saved and closer to God, then in my book it works. My goal in worship leading is to bring others to the foot of the cross, and have fun while we're at it.

By the way Luke, hope you succeed and bring others to Him.
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Unread 06-11-2004, 09:03 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Luke

From Hymns Ancient and Modern:
Joyful Joyful's chorus
I'm glad to hear that from someone else...I thought the style on the song was great, but I listened to the lyrics of the chorus(and also his 3 minutes of talking at the end of the song) and just thought it wasn't quite right.
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Unread 06-12-2004, 12:00 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by georgeo
I'm glad to hear that from someone else...I thought the style on the song was great, but I listened to the lyrics of the chorus(and also his 3 minutes of talking at the end of the song) and just thought it wasn't quite right.
I went into SoundForge and cut the beginning and the end out. You're right, the chorus "[isn't] quite right". I fell over laughing when I heard the prayer, though ("You spin around us, God!").
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Unread 06-12-2004, 12:13 PM   #51
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I've recently done Tomlin's reworking of Wonderful Cross, to great response. I also did Be Thou My Vision a few weeks back... to tremendous response.
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That's why Jesus would use a 5-10 watt tube combo. Then Jesus can get that nice breakup He likes at a manageable volume. A volume that is somewhat formal but still says I'm here to party. Much like tuxedo t-shirt Jesus.
"If all experienced God in the same way and returned Him an identical worship, the song of the Church triumphant would have no symphony, it would be like an orchestra in which all the instruments played the same note." - C.S. Lewis
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Unread 06-12-2004, 12:22 PM   #52
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If Be Thou my Vision got a good congregational response, consider running Let us Love and Sing and Wonder (I reccomend Laura Taylor's tune). The Indelible Grace site has the chords and a demo MP3. The direct link to that hymn is here. That hymn has gotten an amazing response everywhere I've seen it used. It's written by John Newton, of Amazing Grace fame.
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Unread 06-12-2004, 12:25 PM   #53
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I second the vote for the Laura Taylor version of "Let Us Love and Sing and Wonder". Great tune, great hymn... awesome.

In His love,
Nate
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Unread 06-12-2004, 03:18 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeyboardFreak
I second the vote for the Laura Taylor version of "Let Us Love and Sing and Wonder". Great tune, great hymn... awesome.

In His love,
Nate
I love this song...sadly, we don't do it at my church. I don't know which tune I like better, though, as this is my first time hearing Laura Taylor's version.
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Unread 06-12-2004, 08:49 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Luke
I fell over laughing when I heard the prayer, though ("You spin around us, God!").
Whenever I hear things like that, I get an uneasy feeling, but then go the Bible and search, hoping that maybe, just maybe, there is some sort of scriptural basis for such a thing. After an hour or so, I cried.

I like "Let Us Love and Sing and Wonder".

I particularly like the juxtaposition of simple phrases such as "He has washed us with His blood." with lyrics that are drawn directly from scripture and scriptural events.

I think thats hymn is an example of a good "bridging" hymn between hymns and praise songs. One thing many people like about praise songs is there is some simplicity to them. Having good content, then a simpler, repeated section is a compromise between the two in a way. Point being, this might be a good hymn to do in a praise song type church. Another one that comes to mind is "All Creatures of our God and King".
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Unread 06-12-2004, 09:17 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke
(I reccomend Laura Taylor's tune)
Definately Taylor's tune, this was a hymn in need of rewriting.
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Unread 06-13-2004, 02:28 AM   #57
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The tune in the Trinity Hymnal (which is not the tune I-Grace says is the traditional tune) is really good too, actually, but Laura Taylor's is better.
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Unread 06-13-2004, 02:57 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke
Knocking on the Door of Heaven
There's a "praise" song called that?

Quote:
The Heart of Worship
It makes for a good Christian pop song, but I agree.

Quote:
Did you Feel the Mountains Tremble
This one's okay to me, if I remember it. Haven't heard it in a while.

Quote:
Breathe
Haha, I'm not going to judge the author, but this song always seemed to me like it arose from one phrase and a catchy tune, and he fit phrases to the rest. Not much content.

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America
The only times I have been in a service that did this song (it was a youth retreat where I was a leader) I didn't sing along with a word of it.

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Madly
Doesn't this have a "na na hey" part?

Quote:
My Glorious
Once again, a decent Christian pop song, but too showy and centered on cool phrases to really be a God-focused song meant for corporate praise. It's fun to spin in the car, but not the best choice for corporate worship.

Quote:
Dance in the River
There are few songs I hate more than this.

Quote:
Revolution Cry
This was originally a song by a band that claims to be secular but toes the line of the Christian market to sell records. It's a Lifehouse track that somehow worked into the p&w market.


Ah, what about the "update" of "When I Survey the Wondrous Cross," retitled "The Wonderful Cross." I find the chorus distracting and needless.

One of the things I love about Christ is how He transforms cultural mediums of expression. I personally love hearing old hymns done on piano. But most churches I've encountered that do that are stuck in the cultural mode of another continent and another century. However, the churches that do things in a style more fitting to an American culture often choose songs that lack substance.

It's not hard to play hymns with a full band. The university group RUF takes a step in the right direction by using (depending the location, I am informed) various stringed instruments from acoustic guitars to violins. Unfortunately, the only RUF I have attended had something ridiculous like three acoustic guitars playing the same thing with a violin following the chord changes.

However, I will take God-centered lyrics and lacking music over anthrocentric lyrics and well-produced music anyday (not to say modern p&w is necessarily not "lacking" in and of itself).

Quote:
Originally Posted by se7enband
What it all boils down to is this...who/what are you worshiping? Who are you leading in worship? and how are you leading worship. Can it even be called 'Worship'?
How are you leading worship seems to address the musicianship/production/style.

Quote:
Hey, as long as it gets ppl saved and closer to God, then in my book it works.
Worship gets people saved?

And as for getting closer to God, I completely agree: thus I demand songs that wholly God-centered...not describing the process of worship or glorifying the participants of worship, but addressing the worthy nature of God and praising Him for creating, sustaining and redeeming us for His glory. Thus I cannot help but reject many modern praise songs.
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Unread 06-13-2004, 03:03 AM   #59
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I thought about the "worship saving people" statement, and I understand what your point would be...but much of modern praise and worship tends to forget the complete Gospel. There's a lot of "we're dancing for you" and a lot "I honor you," but a startling lack of songs that address not just Christ's sacrifice but our wretched depravity that necessitated it. What made the renowned hymnwriters so amazing was they could address our fall, Christ's sacrifice, God's grace, our redemption, and God's glory all in the same hymn, again and again.
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Unread 06-13-2004, 08:52 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff
This one's okay to me, if I remember it. Haven't heard it in a while.
Open up the doors and let the music play
Let the streets resound with singing
Songs that bring your hope
Songs that bring your joy
Dancers who dance upon injustice


We're still trying to figure out what that last line means.

And the song in general (in its entirety; I gave only the chorus) is just stupid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff
Haha, I'm not going to judge the author, but this song always seemed to me like it arose from one phrase and a catchy tune, and he fit phrases to the rest. Not much content.
I think I heard at a WorshipTogether conference (back when I attended such things) that the song was written in the middle of a worship service--e.g. the girl leading just came up with the words during an interlude or something like that. Was I surprised? No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff
Doesn't this have a "na na hey" part?
Yeah.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff
Once again, a decent Christian pop song, but too showy and centered on cool phrases to really be a God-focused song meant for corporate praise. It's fun to spin in the car, but not the best choice for corporate worship.
I'm only referring to the usefulness of music within corporate worship, although most of the songs I would never consider playing in my car either. Still, that's beyond the scope of this discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff
This was originally a song by a band that claims to be secular but toes the line of the Christian market to sell records. It's a Lifehouse track that somehow worked into the p&w market.
Then why the heck was Passion doing it? Haha, my opinion of them just went down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff
Ah, what about the "update" of "When I Survey the Wondrous Cross," retitled "The Wonderful Cross." I find the chorus distracting and needless.
Me too, but I'd rather modern worship bands do that then most of the stuff available to them. I'd rather congregations sing the three excellent verses and a stupid chorus rather than none of it. Notably, John Wesley said of this Isaac Watts hymn that he would have given up all of his other hymns to be able to say he wrote this one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff
Worship gets people saved?
It could. That's not its purpose, though. Worship, by definition of the word, is for saved people.
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