Tube snobbery?

**Rainer.** · 05-20-2004, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgeo

maybe another positive of a SS or modeling amp-their tone doesn't change much as volume changes.

Yeah. That's why Stereo systems and stuff use them. But for guitars, they just sound great.

georgeo · 05-20-2004, 08:41 PM

I should explain my thoughts...and see if they make sense after this...

When i use my tube amp at church or with show choir, i go through some struggles to get it acoustically isolated and not a big problem to the stage and house mix. When possible, I isolate it in a corner of the room with sound absorbant material around it. Otherwise, i use an L-pad that Major Tom told me how to use and a friend helped me rig up. One way or the other, it tames the tubes so they're not so crazy loud. (i mic my amp and run it through the soundboard)

I have to run the amp fairly loud to even get sound to come out, and a little louder to get it into the sweet spot.

Whereas, my friend, who has a fairly decent sounding SS amp can run his amp at any volume and it sounds pretty much the same-when he uses it at church, he runs it quiet and mics it. At home jamming, he cranks it up. Same tone really.

So I guess my idea that may be one positive of solid state amps(though i'm no amp expert, i'm just thinking this up from thinking back to past situations, i haven't even listened really closely to tones recently) is that they produce essentially the same tone at all volume levels, so they can maximize tone at a lower volume. Whereas, even a small 10-15 W tube amp is insanely loud when the tone is maximized.

Does that make any sense? is that at all scientifically correct? I'm fine with being wrong, just tossing an idea out.

David

ApparentlyNothing · 05-20-2004, 09:22 PM

Yes, that makes sense. SS amps can sound good at low volumes, but tube amps need to be cranked. By "volume changes" in your first post, i assumed you meant high volumes, not low volumes.

**redbaron** · 05-21-2004, 04:07 PM

georgeo: how big is your amp man? I can play my amp (which is 60w) at a medium volume (maybe a little loud for church, unmuffled) and it sounds pretty good. Concert volume is where the sweetspot is though.

I can't wait to really hammer on the blues jr. when it gets here. It makes me thing that i want to pick up a 5-15w tube amp. (or a big hurkin attenuator, but that's still not the same, because you're not driving the speaker to its sweet spot so much).

Ranier: did you know that some of the ultra high end home theater amps are using tubes again? Although, in that context, it's way more expensive, and you're in the $80k preamp range. @_@

Michael Delucci · 05-21-2004, 05:39 PM

Sinker, what everybody basically trying to tell you is if you can't afford a tube amp and like a solid state, go with that. If you can afford to buy and maintain a tube amp, buy the tube.

**Rainer.** · 05-21-2004, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redbaron

Ranier: did you know that some of the ultra high end home theater amps are using tubes again? Although, in that context, it's way more expensive, and you're in the $80k preamp range. @_@

No, in fact, I haven't.

I have heard a tube amp stereo system before, though, and it sounded quite good. The tube/ss differential is a lot more prominent with guitar tone then stereo tone, though.

georgeo · 05-21-2004, 05:48 PM

My amp is a 40W Fender Hot Rod Deluxe. I love it, its just real loud.

Sinker · 05-21-2004, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Delucci

Sinker, what everybody basically trying to tell you is if you can't afford a tube amp and like a solid state, go with that. If you can afford to buy and maintain a tube amp, buy the tube.

Michael, I understand. I play through a POD 2.0/Floorboard into the PA at church. At home, I'm building a rig around a Carvin X30 all tube amp.

My original question wasn't why is tube better than SS. It was why recommend tube when somebody's asking for help comparing two SS amps.

I've had a lot of fun reading this thread, lots of good info and some pretty insightful posts. Even if very few actually attempted to answer the question.

Actually, I feel quite honored to have started a thread that is now 5 pages long!

**Rainer.** · 05-21-2004, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinker

My original question wasn't why is tube better than SS. It was why recommend tube when somebody's asking for help comparing two SS amps.

I don't reccomend tube amps to people who are set on buying one of two amps. Just someone who might get an amp, wants tube amp tone, thinks that a tube amp is too expensive, and is looking for an amp. Either that or they are just generally looking into amps and thinks tube is out of their reach. I come in and reccomend a tube amp better then the ss ones they were considering and for a similar price. It's not about the fact that it's tube as much as it is about that the quality of the amplifier is much higher then the amp they were previously considering.

Quote:

Actually, I feel quite honored to have started a thread that is now 5 pages long!

Fun isn't it?

Just gotta ask the right questions, tube vs. solid state being a very touchy subject as it is...

georgeo · 05-21-2004, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinker

My original question wasn't why is tube better than SS. It was why recommend tube when somebody's asking for help comparing two SS amps.

Because many of us honestly feel that tube amps are better.

Most of the time, people will say something like "I'd actually look at getting a tube amp, but between those, I think B is better"

Sinker · 05-21-2004, 06:12 PM

I understand.

**thesteve** · 05-24-2004, 01:46 AM

wow...i can't believe i missed this thread for so long. darn you guitargeek.com for distracting me.

this being said, the tube overzealousness does get annoying, but for what people usually think they want SS is generally not a good solution. i've owned a Fender HR Deluxe for about six or seven months now, and prior to this my two main amps were a little Crate GFX-15 and a Fender Princeton Chorus (owned by the church). I used to think that the little crate had great tone for SS as i compared it to peavey SS chorus amps and such. the crate even had fake tube tone at high volumes...then i got the HRD, attenuated and ROCKED. the world is a whole different place for me now. sure there are times when I'd like to break out the Princeton Chorus, because in all honesty, the cleans on that amp are cleaner than my HRD will ever be, but by "cleaner" i mean sterile, which generally isn't the tone i want anyway.

Casey · 05-24-2004, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudedude2

sure there are times when I'd like to break out the Princeton Chorus, because in all honesty, the cleans on that amp are cleaner than my HRD will ever be

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudedude2

but by "cleaner" i mean sterile, which generally isn't the tone i want anyway

What?

**thesteve** · 05-24-2004, 06:13 PM

it's not so complicated. SS clean and tube clean generally aren't the same thing. sometimes a super sterile, unaffected tone is a good thing. This is why the Roland JC-120 or Acoustic amps (the brand) are used by jazz musicians who want completely unaffected tone. Tubes tend to add a bit of harmonics to the signal, even when you have a ton of headroom on them.

Visirale · 05-24-2004, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudedude2

it's not so complicated. SS clean and tube clean generally aren't the same thing. sometimes a super sterile, unaffected tone is a good thing. This is why the Roland JC-120 or Acoustic amps (the brand) are used by jazz musicians who want completely unaffected tone. Tubes tend to add a bit of harmonics to the signal, even when you have a ton of headroom on them.

Hm. I always thought Acoustic amps were tube. Their 360 stack was the bass amp to end all bass amps... two 18's