Tube snobbery?

tht00 · 10-17-2007, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twinreverb

Well I guess the reason is because I'm a purist. I guess since I've heard good vintage tube amps and spent my hours drooling over their tone, that's why they're disappointing to me because I keep thinking they'll hit it on the head.

Yeah, I have little experience with many of the 'legendary' vintage tube amps. Oh well... another thing I don't have to GAS over.

Quote:

Originally Posted by twinreverb

For what it's worth, if I was on "Don't Forget The Lyrics" as a guitarist, I'd have to use the POD out of necessity because I could not afford all the rigs of all the greats. However, I've been in an almost similar circumstance before, and my Twin Reverb with ME-50 worked just fine with a guitar that had the Hot Rodded combo and splits.

That's great. It's obvious that a decently flexible and killer rig can be had this way. I guess I'm just not ready to 'settle down' with one amp though.

Sometimes it's best to agree to disagree on what you like best. Tube amps are amazing, that much is obvious -- they have been the core of rock music since its beginnings, and they still are. Modeling is just getting to be a great option, especially for hobbyists. Is it actually going to replace tube amps anytime soon? No, I don't think so. It keeps becoming a more viable/affordable/convincing option, but for many, they're sticking to their tried and true amp they love.

Nothing wrong with that at all.

I'm actually surprised that one of the biggest arguments against modeling hasn't come up -- and that is the worth of the equipment. If I drop $500 on a new X3Live, what is it going to be worth in... say... 3-4 years when Line6 (and others) release the next generation of units? Not much. People (typically) want the newest and best (with modeling at least) -- that means more (and more realistic) amp/pedal models, better effects, more options. Old units will eventually get discarded. That's quite a contrast to, say, the value of an AC15 from the '50s.

Pros/cons go each way. Tube amps become investments. Modeling technology focuses on usability in the here and now.

**nbfan** · 10-17-2007, 04:36 PM

The thing about how people are always wanting the newest modelers is that in many cases (especially with DigiTech) it's the older ones that sounds better. Many say that Line 6's original Spider line sounds much better than today's Spider III series.

**thesteve** · 10-17-2007, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nbfan

The thing about how people are always wanting the newest modelers is that in many cases (especially with DigiTech) it's the older ones that sounds better. Many say that Line 6's original Spider line sounds much better than today's Spider III series.

and many people say that those people are nuts.

**Rainer.** · 10-17-2007, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nbfan

The thing about how people are always wanting the newest modelers is that in many cases (especially with DigiTech) it's the older ones that sounds better. Many say that Line 6's original Spider line sounds much better than today's Spider III series.

But today's PODs kick the old ones into the dirt. The new line of DigiTech RPs also kick the old ones into the dirt. Actually, I've played a really old DigiTech modeler from the early 90s which doesn't have anywhere near the capability of the GNXs of today. Well, back then it was top of the line...

tht00 · 10-17-2007, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainer.

But today's PODs kick the old ones into the dirt. The new line of DigiTech RPs also kick the old ones into the dirt.

My experience with the RP products was rather... yucky? Have they upgraded the RPs since they were first produced?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainer.

Well, back then it was top of the line...

Yup... and it's the inevitable future of todays modelers.

**thesteve** · 10-17-2007, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tht00

My experience with the RP products was rather... yucky? Have they upgraded the RPs since they were first produced?

yeah. They revamped the RP line about a year or so ago.

tht00 · 10-17-2007, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thesteve

yeah. They revamped the RP line about a year or so ago.

What have they done to distinguish the new from the old? Name change? Anything? I see some new models they are selling... but I can't really figure out what's been changed, or if it's just the same technology, repackaged.

**thesteve** · 10-17-2007, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tht00

What have they done to distinguish the new from the old? Name change? Anything? I see some new models they are selling... but I can't really figure out what's been changed, or if it's just the same technology, repackaged.

presbystrat knows more about them. The name is still RP whatever, but I believe they updated the models and the hardware that powers the system as well as repackaging it.

**Rainer.** · 10-17-2007, 11:16 PM

I believe they took the stuff running their GNXs and transplanted it into the RPs, exponentially improving the sound.

guitarguy · 10-18-2007, 06:29 AM

Even though I'm a tube snob I do find some use for modlers. It's good to have a bunch of sounds at your fingertips when recording.... But live I'm a purist. Guitar, wah pedal (maybe), then amp. Nothing in between. Unless it's got tubes in it. I have seen some modlers that use 12ax7s in the preamps but they don't go much further than that.

Randall has that one amp with the different modules that have different amps. That's really cool but really expensive as well.

Demon_Hunter · 11-18-2007, 08:44 AM

The big problem I have with modelers in general is that they always sound... synthetic. I played a new Spider stack not too long ago, and though it sounded nice, the OD, and the amp model, all sounded synthetic.

Ive listened to (not played through) Pods, and (have played through) a couple of Vox amps. Nothing sounds real. You get the bassic outline of the tone of the amp or preamp being modeled, but you dont get the core of the sound. With british modelers you get American models with a distinctly brit tone in them, with American modelers, you get Brit tones with a distinctly American tone, and it sounds synthetic on top of it.

GIVE ME TUBES, OR GIVE ME DEATH!!

Shredcheddar · 11-18-2007, 09:43 PM

This thread is still around? Wow... haha, I remember when it was first started.

Crazy.

niangelo · 12-11-2007, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shredcheddar

This thread is still around? Wow... haha, I remember when it was first started.

Crazy.

Well... it IS stickied.

mikeboyette · 12-14-2007, 03:43 AM

The sound of popular guitar was started back when tube amps were about the only thing available for use.
This started primarily with Fender and Marshall, these are the basic circuits for pretty much any decent sounding tube amp. Yes, there are veriations, but these amps are the basis for the tone were used to hearing. The best sounding amps i've ever heard(been round along time-Also, i'm an electricle engineer and work on vintage tube amps) are tube. However, i have been recently using some rocktron equipment with incredible results. This equipment has a tube in it(12ax7) wich is a preamp tube. The preamp tubesare not primarily responcible for the tone or feel of this units. The EQ settings and Dynamics settings are the key to getting good sound and feel out of these types of units. I recently picked up a Boss GT3 pedal board. With CareFull tweeking i've reproduced sounds i hear on cd's. Also, tubes need to be run pretty hard to get good tube sound. They are very loud!!! power soaks detract from the tube magic. I only play in church these days and need to be able to get sounds at much lower levels ,some of the modelers are well suited for this. Please know i'm only trying to be heplful.

By the way Ive played many tube amps that really didnt sound good. Just because its got tube doesnt mean it sounds good. Buddah a boutique(expensive) is just one that comes to mind.

kent56p · 01-04-2008, 09:39 AM

This thread has been great. I too am an old boomer musician who has owned and played
through a lot of tube amps as well as SS stuff and now I use digital modeling here and there
too. My perspective is different as that while I play a lot of guitar and I prefer going all tube
when I can my main love and instrument is bass.

I prefer a good tube amp for guitar as my first choice and I'll leave it that. As a bass player
however while I do know the joy of having played through a few old Sunn and Ampeg SVT
all tube rigs, I also have gotten great tone with a lot of the better F.E.T. solid state
bass amps out there. As a bass player I'm looking for a nice warm and punchy tone in
my preamp section but I want a lot of clean headroom volume wise so power tube saturation
isn't what I'm looking for. For guitar however a small tube combo amp being pushed.........
well it's a nearly religous experience.

Digital modeling has it's place and I think with Line 6 now coming in with a new line of
Bogner designed all tube amps coupled with their digital modeling engine it could be
very interesting indeed to check one out. That said, old school analog ain't dead and
tubes will be around for a long while to come. At least we have options.