[PacerX]

Originally Posted by thesteve

i've never tried tying a digital front-end (i.e. PODxt) with a tube power amp...and that may very well be the solution. I know the problem with running a digital modeler like a POD into a tube combo or head is the fact that you end up double-harmonizing the signal...because you take the digital model of a tube amp and then add all of the tube amps natural harmonics into the signal...it just ends up sounding worse than either would alone.

Yep, but in the case above the POD is really being used as a controller, and if you ran into an issue with double preamping and getting general harmonic nastiness I think you can bypass the front end on the POD.

Really, a rackmount like the GForce or an Intellifex is going to get the job done, I was just struggling with the midi implementation.

[thesteve]

Originally Posted by PacerX

Yep, but in the case above the POD is really being used as a controller, and if you ran into an issue with double preamping and getting general harmonic nastiness I think you can bypass the front end on the POD.

Really, a rackmount like the GForce or an Intellifex is going to get the job done, I was just struggling with the midi implementation.

there's also the issue that SS pre-amps tied with tube power amps in combo form have not fared well in the past. this was the method used with Peavey's hybrid amps in the 80s. I dont' know what exactly was wrong with them, or why companies haven't tried to build them with newer SS technology...it seems like a no-brainer...(and yes i meant SS, not digital)

[tht00]

Originally Posted by thesteve

there's also the issue that SS pre-amps tied with tube power amps in combo form have not fared well in the past. this was the method used with Peavey's hybrid amps in the 80s. I dont' know what exactly was wrong with them, or why companies haven't tried to build them with newer SS technology...it seems like a no-brainer...(and yes i meant SS, not digital)

hmm... SS preamp and tube power amp... that might fare OK... as the preamps generally distort 'solid statish' anyway.

i think that vox has a great concept going with theirs though.

digital preamp - easiest to imitate...

'dummy' tube power amp - basically a miniature power amp. a 12AX7 that is driven like a power amp, hooked up to an output transformer and a dummy speaker, and reconfigures itself A or AB to be able to best emulate the tube distortion for the selected model. i'm sure that there is more digital stuff done here too.

solid state power amp - reliable, flexable, and set up as to not distort the transistors... can't be done.

attentuator - an extra bonus that isn't really needed... considering you don't need it to get distortion, as that is all taken care of in the 'preamp'... all that it does is that it makes your master volume less touchy.

so, IMO, this is one of the best setups for a modeling amp. digital doing what it does best - imitating preamps. tubes wired to do what they do best - power amp distortion. solid state doing what it does best - accurately amplifying its input. granted, it isn't perfect. not all the amps are perfect reproductions of the original, but 1) they are close, 2) they have a great 'tube' feel to them, and 3) flexablility, flexablility, flexability. i love being able to go from a somewhat dirty AC30 to a distorted AC30 to a raging marshall DSL-2000 with a tap of my homemade footswitch. comes in very handy with all the versatility i need in winter percussion... plus the jimmy page mod on my guitar... i don't know where i'd be without either of them.

so, its not perfect, but at $240, it was definitly the best deal for me.

and somehow, i got on a rant of the vox valvetronix... great concept, great product... its like... digital, tube, and SS in perfect harmony. ok... ok... maybe not 'perfect', but still quite amazing.

i am very interested as to what happens in the modeling world in the next couple years... especially vox's. they really hit the nail on the head this time around.

[Six Flags]

Originally Posted by CheshireCat

Hey, isn't that a Commodore 64 propping open the door to the back pantry?

Chesh

All the youngin's are right now scratching their heads and asking, "what's a Commodore 64" . . . . that's kinda the point.

I must be older than I know.... Commiez! I havn't heard that name in a while... sept for my neighbor, who is always talking about his commy, which he had (and he's like 15 or so?)

[snakecraig]

I'm a little late to be coming in on this thread!

I wanted to share my experiences about Tube/Digital Amps.

I used to demo for Line 6 a few years ago. A few years (Actually had been using only digital stuff for the last 10 years!) only used Digital modelling/effects.

I thought that there was so much hype about Tube amps, that I thought that it was just the music branch trying to keep itself alive.

Honestly, Tube amps are much better sounding, and have much better response and attack. I used to think that it was only a hassle with tubes (servicing, biasing, etc), but it is worth it.

It is also true that the modeling amps go down fast in value. Look at the Line 6 Vetta, or Flextones. A used Flextone 2 costs only a fraction today then it did two years ago. Why, because the manufacturers make you believe that the old ones cannot stand close to the newer "better" models that sound more tube like. THEY SAID THAT TWO YEARS AGO!!!
Do yourself a favor and buy yourself a tube amp. You will have it MUCH longer and will be much more pleased with the sound.

ALSO... Look around! Don't just buy a Fender, Mesa Boogie or a Marshall because its a well known brand... Those amps may not give you the sound your looking for!!! There are tons of great Tube amps on the market! Check out Koch, Dr. Z. Matchless, Bad Cat, Top Hat, Bogner, Constellation, Savage, Custom Audio... The list goes on!

[thesteve]

Dr. Z, Bad Cat and Bogner are also hard to find and fairly expensive.
Matchless I don't think are being made anymore.

as far as "price value" goes...if you're not on the resale market, this becomes a non-issue.

[ApparentlyNothing]

Probably not as hard to find in Sweden where he's from. Although probably still harder than current model Fenders and Marshalls, but those are everywhere. And some of those brands of amps are findable here too, just most often you'd have to order them new from a store since they likely wouldn't stock them unless it's used. Or you could always do ebay.

[thesteve]

bad cats, matchless and bogners I actually tend to find used (ebay or shops)...except Dr. Z, which i've only seen at the website.

i guess what i meant is that you generally can't just walk into your local joint and plug into a Dr Z Nano-amp or an Engl Powerball.

[snakecraig]

Originally Posted by ApparentlyNothing

Probably not as hard to find in Sweden where he's from. Although probably still harder than current model Fenders and Marshalls, but those are everywhere. And some of those brands of amps are findable here too, just most often you'd have to order them new from a store since they likely wouldn't stock them unless it's used. Or you could always do ebay.

Actually the selection of amps here in Sweden is Fantastic. When I moved here (from Canada), I was blown away about how many quality brands are here. There are a number of shops that carry Bogner, Koch, ENGL, Germino, Mad Professor, etc... It's great! Matchless are making amps again. They generally cost more then Bad Cats...

[ApparentlyNothing]

Originally Posted by snakecraig

Actually the selection of amps here in Sweden is Fantastic. When I moved here (from Canada), I was blown away about how many quality brands are here. There are a number of shops that carry Bogner, Koch, ENGL, Germino, Mad Professor, etc... It's great! Matchless are making amps again. They generally cost more then Bad Cats...

That's what I thought. Man, I wish I lived in Europe. All the good amps are from there.

[snakecraig]

Originally Posted by ApparentlyNothing

That's what I thought. Man, I wish I lived in Europe. All the good amps are from there.

Yeah, but they're expensive!

I am the distributer for Koch here in Sweden, so I get them for a good price. Otherwise I could have never afforded one!

I heard that it is getting harder over there for you guys to test good amps. Stores often do not want to have them in stock because they are afraid that they will never sell them. The market here in Sweden for good gear is both. There is a LOT of crap, but its easier to get your hands on the good stuff.

[Bobby Simcox]

uh.......i still like my Vetta and Fender Power Chorus!!!
Bobby

[snakecraig]

Have you got a Power Chorus???

A friend of mine had one back in the early 90's.

I used to use an old M-80 Fender Pre-amp, that actually sounded quite bad by itself. When I EQ'd, compressed and processed the sound, it actually sounded great.

[Bobby Simcox]

Yo Snake!!!
Yeah, believe it or not, i actually have 2 of the Power Choruses!!!>:P
They're a Great workhorse amp!!! The clean sound is punchy and warm and even skanky when i switch to single coil on my Zacharys!!! The distortion sound is quite smooth and warm or even nasty if i want to jack up the gain, and the chorus fattens and shimmers quite nicely!!! What i like about them is their consistancy at low or high volumes, they're relatively light, and they can take a major beating and keep pumping!!! Currently, i'm w/ 5 bands right now and the Fenders are my mainstay for 4 of them!!! I use the Vetta halfstack for Tsunami, which is Nu Heavy Metal!!! The other bands are Alternative Rock, Latin Funk Instrumental Fusion, and Instrumental Originals!!!Oh, and i play in a worship band too!!! For 200 bucks used, the Fender Power Chorus is pretty hard to beat!!! Since i'm a broke guitar player, it's Deffinitely a God Send!!!
Bobby

[smashing guitar]

Originally Posted by Sinker

Q: I've narrowed my choices down to these two solid state amps, should I get A or B and why?
A: Neither, for the same money you can buy a tube amp.

Q: Which of these two stomp boxes gives the best distortion?
A: Neither, use the drive channel of a tube amp.

Hahahahahahaha. So true.