[Insane Drummer]

Lol, I think we may need Protestent History and Catholic History forums soon.

[Wheatmeister]

Originally Posted by ICTHUS

*sigh* I will add, in finality, that Christ was celibate. Since the Christian priesthood act 'in persona Christi' to the people of God, it makes sense that they would emulate Christ in every way possible for their own ministry.

At the risk of sounding like I give creedence to the Gnostic Gospels, which I don't, can you offer any proof of Christ's celibacy. And I don't really buy a non-mention of marriage as proof.

[Lightknight]

Originally Posted by Insane Drummer

Lol, I think we may need Protestent History and Catholic History forums soon.

Actually, Catholic Church history is our (Protestant) history. Only after the split does our history diverge. So that division wouldn't be feasible. Might as well have a history forum for every denomination if you're going to do that.

[Lightknight]

Originally Posted by Wheatmeister

At the risk of sounding like I give creedence to the Gnostic Gospels, which I don't, can you offer any proof of Christ's celibacy. And I don't really buy a non-mention of marriage as proof.

The Bible says it is better not to marry.

1Cr 7:36 But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his virgin, if she pass the flower of [her] age, and need so require, let him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry.
1Cr 7:37 Nevertheless he that standeth stedfast in his heart, having no necessity, but hath power over his own will, and hath so decreed in his heart that he will keep his virgin, doeth well.
1Cr 7:38 So then he that giveth [her] in marriage doeth well; but he that giveth [her] not in marriage doeth better.

It isn't a sin to marry. But wouldn't Jesus do what is better?

Also, we are the bride of Christ. Why would he be married to someone else?

[Wheatmeister]

Originally Posted by Lightknight

The Bible says it is better not to marry.

1Cr 7:36 But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his virgin, if she pass the flower of [her] age, and need so require, let him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry.
1Cr 7:37 Nevertheless he that standeth stedfast in his heart, having no necessity, but hath power over his own will, and hath so decreed in his heart that he will keep his virgin, doeth well.
1Cr 7:38 So then he that giveth [her] in marriage doeth well; but he that giveth [her] not in marriage doeth better.

It isn't a sin to marry. But wouldn't Jesus do what is better?

I may be wrong, and I don't have a Bible handy, but isn't this one of those passages where Paul said it was his opinion that it was better to marry than to burn? If so, this falls because while Paul was a Godly man, one man's opinion(that man not being Jesus of course) does not a condemnation of marriage make.

Originally Posted by Lightknight

Also, we are the bride of Christ. Why would he be married to someone else?

Literal v. allegorical. I didn't don a white gown at my baptism, but that doesn't mean I'm not the bride of Christ. I'm still not entirely convinced.

[Lightknight]

Originally Posted by Wheatmeister

I may be wrong, and I don't have a Bible handy, but isn't this one of those passages where Paul said it was his opinion that it was better to marry than to burn? If so, this falls because while Paul was a Godly man, one man's opinion(that man not being Jesus of course) does not a condemnation of marriage make.


Literal v. allegorical. I didn't don a white gown at my baptism, but that doesn't mean I'm not the bride of Christ. I'm still not entirely convinced.

I do this because you have no Bible present. This is not an opinion of Paul but him answering questions.

1Cr 7:1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: [It is] good for a man not to touch a woman.
1Cr 7:2 Nevertheless, [to avoid] fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
1Cr 7:3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
1Cr 7:4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.
1Cr 7:5 Defraud ye not one the other, except [it be] with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.
1Cr 7:6 But I speak this by permission, [and] not of commandment.
1Cr 7:7 For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.
1Cr 7:8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I.
1Cr 7:9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.
1Cr 7:10 And unto the married I command, [yet] not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from [her] husband:
1Cr 7:11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to [her] husband: and let not the husband put away [his] wife.
1Cr 7:12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
1Cr 7:13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
1Cr 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
1Cr 7:15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such [cases]: but God hath called us to peace.
1Cr 7:16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save [thy] husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save [thy] wife?
1Cr 7:17 But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.
1Cr 7:18 Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised.
1Cr 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
1Cr 7:20 Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.
1Cr 7:21 Art thou called [being] a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use [it] rather.
1Cr 7:22 For he that is called in the Lord, [being] a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, [being] free, is Christ's servant.
1Cr 7:23 Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men.
1Cr 7:24 Brethren, let every man, wherein he is called, therein abide with God.
1Cr 7:25 Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful.
1Cr 7:26 I suppose therefore that this is good for the present distress, [I say], that [it is] good for a man so to be.
1Cr 7:27 Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife.
1Cr 7:28 But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.
1Cr 7:29 But this I say, brethren, the time [is] short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none;
1Cr 7:30 And they that weep, as though they wept not; and they that rejoice, as though they rejoiced not; and they that buy, as though they possessed not;
1Cr 7:31 And they that use this world, as not abusing [it]: for the fashion of this world passeth away.
1Cr 7:32 But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord:
1Cr 7:33 But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please [his] wife.
1Cr 7:34 There is difference [also] between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please [her] husband.
1Cr 7:35 And this I speak for your own profit; not that I may cast a snare upon you, but for that which is comely, and that ye may attend upon the Lord without distraction.
1Cr 7:36 But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his virgin, if she pass the flower of [her] age, and need so require, let him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry.
1Cr 7:37 Nevertheless he that standeth stedfast in his heart, having no necessity, but hath power over his own will, and hath so decreed in his heart that he will keep his virgin, doeth well.
1Cr 7:38 So then he that giveth [her] in marriage doeth well; but he that giveth [her] not in marriage doeth better.
1Cr 7:39 The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.
1Cr 7:40 But she is happier if she so abide, after my judgment: and I think also that I have the Spirit of God.

Now, pay ultra close attention to the part I bolded and underlined. Tell me now, was Jesus married? No. Also, this talk is meaningless because even if I didn't have scripture to back me up, which I do, you don't have ANYTHING at all to back up you.

[ICTHUS]

Okay, as Mod I'm going to step in and ask that we shift this thread back to it's original purpose...which was...what, exactly?

[Insane Drummer]

Um.. Insulting Gavin? No it was funny Christian hitory songs.

[Lightknight]

Originally Posted by Insane Drummer

Um.. Insulting Gavin? No it was funny Christian hitory songs.

lol, you guys like the former topic though .

How about "This little light of mine" I always kinda found it funny.

[Insane Drummer]

It has no relevence to Church History... So it does not count.

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by ICTHUS

Here, I quote St. Thomas More, martyred at the hands of King Henry VIII, when he said,

"If God had wanted to reform His Church, he would not send an Augustinian friar out of the bed of a nun!"

And if God wanted to form a church, he would not use a supposed bastard child accused of blasphemy from nazereth now would he?

[ICTHUS]

Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq

And if God wanted to form a church, he would not use a supposed bastard child accused of blasphemy from nazereth now would he?

It just so happens that that supposed 'bastard child' was the Word Incarnate, which I highly doubt Luther could claim for himself.

I'm ending this tangent. Any further off topic posts will be deleted. Thank you.

[BillSPrestonEsq]

I take it you realize that your position is indefensible as you posted an ill thought out ad-hominem?

[Lightknight]

Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq

I take it you realize that your position is indefensible as you posted an ill thought out ad-hominem?

Look, guys, it doesn't matter. Look at the people Jesus used. Look at how society viewed them. Don't forget also what we've been forgiven of. How dare any of us condemn another.

[ICTHUS]

Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq

I take it you realize that your position is indefensible as you posted an ill thought out ad-hominem?

No, I still think that Luther didn't reform the Church, as he thought - St. Thomas merely put my sentiments into wittier words than I could have.