[Metallistically]

Originally Posted by BurntHombre

I'm not a P.O.D. fan, and I wouldn't recognize one of their songs if I heard it...but, in all due respect, the statements above are patently absurd. I realize you're very emotionally invested in this group, but let's have some clear-headed thinking:

Do you have to be an advanced C++ programmer in order to criticize Windows?

Do you have to be a skilled photographer to say you don't like the work of Robert Mapplethorpe?

Do you have to be an experienced movie director to say you didn't like Dude, Where's My Car?

No on all counts. And I would suggest that offering up criticism of P.O.D. and living a Christ-like life are not two mutually exclusive activities.

Thick skin will take you a long way in life.

You're right on most counts.

On the last count, there are many Christians (who I may add on not on fire for God but do love God, they just don't give everything to God) who buy secular CDs and neglect Christian CDs. Many of my classmates at my Christian school (which has the above problem mentioned) love Linkin Park. Now I respect LP because they did start, in effect, a new genre. However, I did not like the dynamics of Hybrid Theory once I started playing guitar.
Now, I have no problem with studying secular bands to gain an understanding of the roots of the music you play (i.e. if you play Heavy Metal, I have no problem with you studying Van Halen). But you must be careful; I have a Van Halen tape, I don't agree with the lyrics and message. However, I do think Eddie Van Halen (the guitarist for Van Halen) is a good guitarist. I study his style to improve my own style. Just beware.
I'm not saying you have to like P.O.D. or any other band. I'm only saying this, unless you are a good musician (can play Jazz, Blues, Rock, Metal, and Contemperary well) do not criticize what you can't play. I don't think a lot of P.O.D.'s oldere songs are that skilled but I don't criticize them.

[elijah77jc]

Originally Posted by Metallistically

I'm not saying you have to like P.O.D. or any other band. I'm only saying this, unless you are a good musician (can play Jazz, Blues, Rock, Metal, and Contemperary well) do not criticize what you can't play. I don't think a lot of P.O.D.'s oldere songs are that skilled but I don't criticize them.

i'm still not understanding...

why do i have to be able to play it in order to think it sounds bad?

[Mr.Zachcore]

Originally Posted by elijah77jc

i'm still not understanding...

why do i have to be able to play it in order to think it sounds bad?

because you can't think it sounds bad unless you can play it. If you can't play it correctly yourself how will you know what it sounds like when it is good??

Originally Posted by Metallistically

On the last count, there are many Christians (who I may add on not on fire for God but do love God, they just don't give everything to God) who buy secular CDs and neglect Christian CDs. Many of my classmates at my Christian school (which has the above problem mentioned) love Linkin Park.

Is listening to Secular music a sin? If music A sounds better than music B but music B is from a "christian artist" should I buy it just for that reason even though it sucks? No. I will buy what I like. Listening to music is not a sin. We have created a bubble in the "Christian Scene" and we conclude that everything outside of that bubble is evil. It is ridiculous.

[elijah77jc]

Originally Posted by Mr.Zachcore

because you can't think it sounds bad unless you can play it. If you can't play it correctly yourself how will you know what it sounds like when it is good??

there's no doubt in my mind that he's playing it correctly, i just don't like it regardless

[Skeeter]

Originally Posted by Metallistically

You're right on most counts.

On the last count, there are many Christians (who I may add on not on fire for God but do love God, they just don't give everything to God) who buy secular CDs and neglect Christian CDs. Many of my classmates at my Christian school (which has the above problem mentioned) love Linkin Park. Now I respect LP because they did start, in effect, a new genre. However, I did not like the dynamics of Hybrid Theory once I started playing guitar.

I've given my listening to secular CDs to God. Since when does it mean that you haven't given everything to God if you listen to secular music? I buy my breakfast cereal from a "secular" grocery store. Does that mean I'm not on fire for God?

And Linkin Park did not start a new genre. Please.

Now, I have no problem with studying secular bands to gain an understanding of the roots of the music you play (i.e. if you play Heavy Metal, I have no problem with you studying Van Halen).

What's wrong with listening to music simply to enjoy it?

But you must be careful; I have a Van Halen tape, I don't agree with the lyrics and message. However, I do think Eddie Van Halen (the guitarist for Van Halen) is a good guitarist. I study his style to improve my own style. Just beware.

I disagree with the lyrics and message of a great many bands that I love. I recognize their messages are not something I agree with and enjoy the lyrics without accepting them. I can appreciate the way Rivers Cuomo puts words together without agreeing with what he's saying.

I'm not saying you have to like P.O.D. or any other band. I'm only saying this, unless you are a good musician (can play Jazz, Blues, Rock, Metal, and Contemperary well) do not criticize what you can't play. I don't think a lot of P.O.D.'s oldere songs are that skilled but I don't criticize them.

What? That's completely ridiculous. There's no way I could ever play as technically as Steve Vai, but I can criticize his lack of emotion and songwriting (not that I don't like Vai, it's just an example). If something sounds like crap to my ears, I'm going to say it sounds like crap. Just because I couldn't play it on my guitar doesn't mean it doesn't sound like crap.

And Traa was a far better bass player on previous CDs. I love his slap work on Snuff The Punk. He's simplified his style to simply have meaty tone, rather than technical skill. I much prefer his previous bass work.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Metallistically

You're right on most counts.

On the last count, there are many Christians (who I may add on not on fire for God but do love God, they just don't give everything to God) who buy secular CDs and neglect Christian CDs. Many of my classmates at my Christian school (which has the above problem mentioned) love Linkin Park. Now I respect LP because they did start, in effect, a new genre. However, I did not like the dynamics of Hybrid Theory once I started playing guitar.
Now, I have no problem with studying secular bands to gain an understanding of the roots of the music you play (i.e. if you play Heavy Metal, I have no problem with you studying Van Halen). But you must be careful; I have a Van Halen tape, I don't agree with the lyrics and message. However, I do think Eddie Van Halen (the guitarist for Van Halen) is a good guitarist. I study his style to improve my own style. Just beware.
I'm not saying you have to like P.O.D. or any other band. I'm only saying this, unless you are a good musician (can play Jazz, Blues, Rock, Metal, and Contemperary well) do not criticize what you can't play. I don't think a lot of P.O.D.'s oldere songs are that skilled but I don't criticize them.

.....well.....uhhhh...nah, why bother?

[gibsongirl413]

all i have to say is.... ok, i might not can play their stuff, and yes it takes some sort of talent to make their music... but to me, it sounds bad. that's all. but if anyone likes it, go for it, but dont try to make me "appreciate" it. =) ~gg~

[Jonular]

Originally Posted by Metallistically

I'm not saying you have to like P.O.D. or any other band. I'm only saying this, unless you are a good musician (can play Jazz, Blues, Rock, Metal, and Contemperary well) do not criticize what you can't play. I don't think a lot of P.O.D.'s oldere songs are that skilled but I don't criticize them.

So, does this mean we have to like the music, since we can't play it?

Or....you said this in your first post:

I'm not saying you have to like them but don't criticize em. I'm sick of people who can't play guitar very well criticizing what they can't at least copy!

Great. If we don't like it and we can't play it, then just shut up and don't say anything, right?

Great.

~Jon

[lostinleftfield]

i ould prolly play about half the stuff they've written.

i just hate the way it sounds.

this thread is out of hand.

[Nate]

Originally Posted by lostinleftfield

this thread is out of hand.

Hardly. Re-opened.

In His love,
Nate

[Rainer.]

Originally Posted by Metallistically

On the last count, there are many Christians (who I may add on not on fire for God but do love God, they just don't give everything to God) who buy secular CDs and neglect Christian CDs. Many of my classmates at my Christian school (which has the above problem mentioned) love Linkin Park. Now I respect LP because they did start, in effect, a new genre. However, I did not like the dynamics of Hybrid Theory once I started playing guitar.

Why can't I listen to secular CD's? In my CD collection, I probably have 75% secular and 25% Christian. Why? Because I just happen to like more secular bands then Christian bands. Does that make me a bad person? I think not. It's not that I favor secular CD's just because of the fact they're secular, but because I enjoy the music.

Now, I have no problem with studying secular bands to gain an understanding of the roots of the music you play (i.e. if you play Heavy Metal, I have no problem with you studying Van Halen). But you must be careful; I have a Van Halen tape, I don't agree with the lyrics and message. However, I do think Eddie Van Halen (the guitarist for Van Halen) is a good guitarist. I study his style to improve my own style. Just beware.

Me neither. But what is the differences between listening to gain knowledge of "musical roots" and just listening for pure enjoyment? Not much. So what I enjoy listening to some Metallica. Do I like what their message is? No. Do I lke what they support? No. Do I enjoy the music enough to keep listening? Yes. There is nothing inherently wrong with listening to secular music. So what the message of the songs aren't about God? I like 'em.

I'm not saying you have to like P.O.D. or any other band. I'm only saying this, unless you are a good musician (can play Jazz, Blues, Rock, Metal, and Contemperary well) do not criticize what you can't play. I don't think a lot of P.O.D.'s oldere songs are that skilled but I don't criticize them.

Why not? I can't play baseball. I criticize baseball teams. I can't drive, but I criticize someone else's driving if they're being incompetant. Likewise, I can criticize what I can't play. For example, I openly criticize Yngwie Malmsteen's work. I don't like his songs and think he can't write a song that great at all. However, I am not 1/20 as good as him at playing guitar. It'll probably take me years before I can play a single Yngwie lick. Doesn't mean I can't criticize his work.

[ripFIF]

Originally Posted by Mr.Zachcore

Is listening to Secular music a sin? If music A sounds better than music B but music B is from a "christian artist" should I buy it just for that reason even though it sucks? No. I will buy what I like. Listening to music is not a sin. We have created a bubble in the "Christian Scene" and we conclude that everything outside of that bubble is evil. It is ridiculous.

this man knows what he is talking about

back on the subject, i was not impressed w/ the new cd (no i can't play a lick of it) point is you are entitled to an opinion whether or not you can play it. i can't play the majority of the music i like, does that mean i can't like it?

[lostinleftfield]

why yes...of course it does

i like alot of music and i enjoyed POD up until Payable

now they're not even in my top ten.(just Not My Style)

now about the whole"listening to sec music"idea

i enjoy many secular bands.

for example: jimi hendrix(but i cant play his music on guitar)
dave matthews band,judas priest,pink floyd,rush,led zepplin.etc.

i study their music to find out where my music's roots are.

i find nothing wrong with this
the problem with some secular music (for me linkin park)
is that the more i listened to it the worse i felt.
i got really depressed etc.

now you may never feel that way when listening to their music
but for me it was a stumbling block.


does that clear up some stuff??

[Ted Logan]

Originally Posted by Metallistically

I'm only saying this, unless you are a good musician (can play Jazz, Blues, Rock, Metal, and Contemperary well) do not criticize what you can't play.

That's preposterous I can't play piano, but I know that I like Bach much better than Mozart. I can't make magnetic tape synthesized music, but I know that I despise Babbitt's Philomel with a passion. Sample some of this travesty.

In addition, I'm not a bluegrass player, but I know that I prefer Chris Thile and Flat & Scruggs to Del McCoury.

If you're going to tell people what to do, you should tell us why. Why in the WORLD should people only be allowed to criticize what they have the ability to do?

[gibsongirl413]

Originally Posted by Aaron Adams

That's preposterous I can't play piano, but I know that I like Bach much better than Mozart. I can't make magnetic tape synthesized music, but I know that I despise Babbitt's Philomel with a passion. Sample some of this travesty.

In addition, I'm not a bluegrass player, but I know that I prefer Chris Thile and Flat & Scruggs to Del McCoury.

If you're going to tell people what to do, you should tell us why. Why in the WORLD should people only be allowed to criticize what they have the ability to do?

ditto