[CheshireCat]

WORST GUITAR BUYING ADVICE INITIAL POST AND RELATED THREADS

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This must be the WORST advice you could ever get/give in the entire world of guitar buying.

This was something I was going to start a new thread on, and ended up touching on in another post where it was relevant. However, it really needs it's own thread.

I see a lot of posts on here about what kind of guitar should someone get and so on. To make that kind of informed decision, usually you need to know a lot about guitars, or have some clear idea of what to look for. A lot of guitars look identical, give or take a paint job, and if you don't know what to look for, they can all look the same.

And, if you are just starting out, you are not going to know a lot of this stuff. That's why education is so critical.

For instance, how do you tell the difference between a total crap guitar for $179 and a virtually identical (as far as looks go) guitar that plays well and is an excellent value for $209 (only $30 more)? A beginner, or his or her parents, often won't know this. Very often, the people who work in that music store won't know that either. Especially in stores that mix "band" instruments with "rock" instruments. More on that later.

Because of this, I consider the following, with as little melodrama and exaggeration as possible, to be the worst advice you could ever get/give in the entire world of guitar buying: "Go to your local store and try out every guitar in your price range, and go with the one that sounds/feels/plays/you-like/whatever the best".

As well meaning as this advice may be, I see some significant problems with this. And this is not an indictment of anyone here who has offered it. I have as well in the past.

First, what if all the guitars at your local store are crap? This happens so often it's pitiful. You go to your local music store, and they have one used Fender Strat for about $800, one Yamaha whatever for about $600, and the rest are all crap imports from Korea, trafficked by no-name-brands, all for under $200. If you have arbitrarily determined that your price range is $225 or whatever because that's all you have right now in your checking account, and/or you think that that's what a guitar should cost without any real-world understanding of quality musical instruments because you are new to all this, then the technical term for this is "you're screwed." There's no way that you will pay any attention or consider for a moment the only two decent guitars in the whole store. You are going to be picking from all the crap guitars. And, based on that above advice, you will, hopefully, be picking the least crappiest of all the crap guitars. You'll be getting crap, but it will be slightly better crap.

But here's the thing: it's still crap!! IOW, instead of getting this crappy Korean import for $179, you'll be getting that crappy Korean import for $189. Odds are, they could have been made right next to each other in the same sweat-shop by the same workers getting paid $10 a day.

I see this with startling regularity, and often these music stores don't even have the Fender or Yamaha in this example. Sometimes all they have is the crap and nothing else.

This scenario is especially rampant in music stores that mix "band" instruments (all the instruments for school band and orchestra) and "rock" instruments, or "electric music" instruments (electric guitars, basses, amps, drums, keyboards, so on. Guitar Center stuff) rather than a store that specializes in just "rock" instruments, like Guitar Center. The reason for this is that most people in the "band and orchestra" world have absolutely no experience and sensibility in the "rock" world. They don't know how to cater to the special needs of the electric (or acoustic) guitarist, and view guitars and basses as just another instrument to sell.

I know this from experience because in every single music store like that that I have been in, in many major metroplexes here in TX, GA, and so on, fit that exact same profile. Usually, they have one guy in the guitar section, and he was a roadie (and de facto "guitar tech") for Cheap Trick or Great White or someone back in the early '80's, had a garage band that gigged a bit at a local club, and that's about it (if even that much) and he's usually not even remotely knowledgeable about what's new in "rock" instruments. Now, if you're local guy is more knowledgeable than that, thank your lucky stars. But you can almost guarantee that everyone else in that store will be totally clueless, beyond what sku numbers they can order from the catalog.

A sharp, stark generalization, I know, but it squares with every single "general" music store I have been in over the last decade. The only "general" music store that was able to pull this off was MARS Music Superstore . . . . only, they didn't, because they are now bankrupt and out of business.

BTW, these comments are in no way intended to slam any "general music stores". A lot of them are good people, and if you can find a good deal there, then great! But, from my experience, it is not an ideal place to get an education in "Rock" instruments. That also goes for acoustic guitars as well.

Second, let's take one of the above scenarios a step further.

For instance, how do you tell the difference between a total crap guitar for $179 and a virtually identical (as far as looks go) guitar that plays well and is an excellent value for $209 (only $30 more)?

Let's say that you set the cap on your "price-range" at $190, and you just can't see your way clear to pay more, plus, both these guitars look identical to you. You can't tell the difference between the two. Well, hey, you just saved $30, right? Congratulations! You came in under your price-range and got quite a deal! Or did you? The imported Squiers (carried by Fender, but not made by Fender) are notorious around here for being problematic, while the aforementioned Fender Made-in-Mexico Strats are quite handy, and are a good value for the money.

If you knew this distinction, you could have held out for $30 more for the better guitar.

But a newbie wouldn't know this. And guitar companies and dealers who carry identical looking cheapo lines are counting on this. It often means the difference between selling a guitar and not selling one at all when someone just doesn't have the money, or awareness, to pony up for quality.

That's another key point.

"Go to your local store and try out every guitar in your price range, and go with the one that sounds/feels/plays/you-like/whatever the best".

I see this advice given to so many people here who say up front that they are just getting started and are just learning, and, based on their other posts and threads from the Logistics forum, are often struggling with even the basic chords (well, hey, we all have to start somewhere, right? ).

So, how is this newbie going to have the maturity, hand-coordination, knowledge, experience, feel, and basic musicality, to be able to pick-up a guitar and give it a "test-drive" ("test-play"?) and know what to feel for, listen for, look for, look at, and so on? That would be a lot like having a 15 year-old kid with about a week's worth of driving experience, and just got his learner's permit, go test-drive a bunch of new cars and write a review for Car and Driver Magazine. "So, Junior, which car is the better value?" Not likely.

Coupled with the other example, send that same kid to Biff's Used Car Lot (there's one of these in every town), and have him test drive a bunch of clunkers, all going for about $2K to $4K, and ask him which car is the better value. Are you kidding? That's utterly ridiculous! But isn't that exactly what we propose when we send a kid "to your local store and try out every guitar in your price range, and go with the one that sounds/feels/plays/you-like/whatever the best".

Not only that, it takes about 6 months to know if we truly like the sound of a new guitar! It takes that long for our ears and brain connection to attenuate to the new listening experience.

Now, granted, if you play a bunch of crap guitars, then get a good one, thru a good amp, then, yeah, you'll immediately notice an improvement. That will be a dramatic revelation. But to fully appreciate the tonality and timbre at the level most people talk about around here, with "slightly chunky" this and "slightly darker" that and so on, it takes about 6 months.

Case in point: DiMarzio pickups in Parker Guitars.

Ken Parker revolutionized guitars with his Fly. It's only 3.5 lbs, yet has the sustain of a guitar made of granite! It has to do with the construction of the guitar, and sound transference and resonance. He has about 8 to 16 patents on it. He even figured in the resonance transferrence into and from the guitarist's body itself! The guitar literally (or almost literally) comes alive in your hands. So, when you play it for the first time, as you can imagine, it has an amazing tone. That is, for about the first 6 months.

See, the pickups suck. Basically, Ken was in NY when he was working on the prototype Fly, and it needed a custom sized pickup. Well, Larry DiMarzio was in NY, and Seymour is out in Cali. So, instead of custom Duncans, Ken went with custom DiMarzio, probably because Larry and the boys made it real easy for Ken to drop by anytime, being figuratively down the street. Unfortunately, the pickups don't cut it. But you can't hear that at first because your ear is still adjusting to the radically new way of hearing a guitar, given it's greater resonance and responsiveness.

Then, usually about after 6 months, people start to notice that the pickups sound kind of "rizzy". It's been described as "A fly buzzing around in your head" which was probably not the Fly motif or connotation that Ken had in mind when he named his guitar the Parker Fly.

Well, thru an interesting turn of events, Parkers now come with Duncans on some models, and it is a custom option, tho I imagine eventually, the DiMarzios will be completely discontinued.

Now, usually only experienced, mature guitarists buy Parkers. IOW, people who have maturity, hand-coordination, knowledge, experience, feel, and basic musicality. And if they can't spot (or, rather, hear) the rizziness of a DiMarzio pickup in a Parker after 6 solid months of playing and gigging, how is an inexperienced, not-yet-musically-mature, uncoordinated, naive, not-yet-musical newbie going to know a good guitar when he sees/hears/plays one after a 5 minute test-drive at the local Guitar Center?

Not only all this, but we haven't even considered whether the guitars have been properly set up and are in good playing condition! What if the best guitar in the store, the one of the greatest value for the new student and would be perfect wasn't set up correctly? Trust me, most music store clerks will have no idea what you are talking about if you ask if the guitar is properly set up. They will probably strum it and say, "yeah, sounds in tune".

[POST RESPONSES TO THIS THREAD]

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[CheshireCat]

ADVICE THREADS

[CheshireCat]

FENDER MIM STRAT THREADS

[CheshireCat]

The Continuing Saga of

MY UTAH

and It's Quest for Perfection.



[BTW, that's not me, that's my brother in the photos. These pics are about 12 years old, tho, my Utah hasn't changed all that much. The black thing on the head-stock - a crude string retainer - is gone, and the coil splitter in the upper left hand corner.]

I have about $2K worth of upgrades planned. It will look virtually identical to how it looks now, but the only things left will be the body and the tailpiece. Everything else will be gone. (even tho, I am actually trading the one BTC from my guitar for the one on my Bass! )

Here's an incomplete list:

New Neck [Note: I've put the new neck on hold because I got the truss rod of my current neck working, so I'm gonna see how much of this I can do on my current neck. That said . . . ]:
* Stainless Steel FretsGot it!
* One piece maple with some birdseye figuring Got it!
* Conical Radius: 9.5"-12"Got it!
* Custom back profile - combo of Strat and Parker Fly Got it!
* Custom Headstock (see pic) Got it!
* Half scalloped like it is now (see pic) Got it!
* Custom Inlay at 5th and 12th frets with no front dots or side dots (see Fretboard Logic SE for details) by Larry Robinson. He's incredible!! Got the FBL dots!!! Half way there!!! Woohoo!!
* [Didn't go with Larry, but did next best thing and did it myself with the help of a friend with a laser ingraver.]Got it!
* Earvana Nut Got it!!! Woohoo!!
* Schaller Locking Tuning Machines Got 'em!

New Pickups:
* New Seymour Duncan Lil' 59 in the neck position Got it!
* New Seymour Duncan Tele neck pickup, Antiquity Got it!
* New EMG-89 in the bridge position Got it!
* GraphTech GHOST Modular Pickup System (more below) which will give me both piezo-acoustic and MIDI!!! way cool!!

New Electronics:
* Sustainiac Stealth magnetic sustainer unit (the driver fits in the neck pickup cavity with a single-coil-style mini-humbucker like the JB Jr.)

* 1 (maybe 2) non-toggle, internally mounted EMG-PA2 pre-amps for each of the passive Duncans. BTW, that's a great way to mix active and passive because the PA2 pre-amp acts as an impedance matcher, so both active and passive pickups can run thru the same 25k pot. Got it!
* Two New Battery Boxes for quick changing batteries Got 'em!
* New EMG-VMC (Variable Midrange Concentric) circuit, which, when coupled with my pre-existing EMG-BTC (Bass/Treble Concentric) circuit, will give me full 3-band EQ!! Got it!
* Three Fender Jag style sliding switches for spliting the 89 and half-splitting (or "half-phasing") the JB Jr., and for phase inverting the JB Jr. Got 'em!
* 2 Fender S-1 switches (4PDT on-on push/push pots). Got 'em!
* Preamps with GHOST system
* New Tune-O-Matic Bridge with GHOST system (nice bonus)
* Completely (or close to completely) internally shielded. Check it out at Guitar Nuts!
* A new switching convention outlined here (this will give me every conceivable combo of the neck, middle, and bridge pickup): Got it!


Structural Modifications:
* Upgraded Neck (outlined above)
* Routing out under Bridge and Tailpiece to Lo-Pro it (like with Warrior Guitars. ) Did it!
* Direct Coupling the pickups to the body (iow, bolted directly to the body and not dangling on springs in a mounting ring) Did it!
* Seriously debating: a custom Stetsbar.

There may be some other things, but this gives you an idea!

Chesh

[CheshireCat]

MUSIC TASTES AND PHILOSOPHY THREADS

[CheshireCat]

"RAINER IS THE SHIZZLE" THREADS

[hapa_angel]

Chesh..... for reals man.......


first you number 1-10, then you go back and change the posts and make them super-de-duper long.




Yup, you have a blog.

[CheshireCat]

Originally Posted by SCCHarpGirl

This has got to be one of the odder blogs I've read...but that's what makes it fun

Hey Noelle!!! Pleasure to have you here!

BTW, I never told you, but I wanted to build an instrument for you eventually. I have several tribute instruments I want to build for my friends.



Chesh

[CheshireCat]

ULTIMATE GUITAR WORKOUT

[CheshireCat]

LUTHERIE THREADS

[CheshireCat]

HAPA_ANGEL IS THE ONLY GIRL FOR ME AND I WANT TO MARRY HER SO DESPERATELY THAT MY SOUL CRIES FOR HER EVERY NIGHT AS I DREAM OF OUR FUTURE TOGETHER OH PLEASE HAPA ANGEL SAY "YES" PLEASE NO MATTER WHAT DON'T DENY YOUR TRUE FEELINGS WE WERE MEANT FOR EACH OTHER!!!!!!! THREADS

[CheshireCat]

"NATE IS THE SHIZZLE" THREADS

[hapa_angel]

Originally Posted by Chesh tha dork

HAPA_ANGEL IS THE ONLY GIRL FOR ME AND I WANT TO MARRY HER SO DESPERATELY THAT MY SOUL CRIES FOR HER EVERY NIGHT AS I DREAM OF OUR FUTURE TOGETHER OH PLEASE HAPA ANGEL SAY "YES" PLEASE NO MATTER WHAT DON'T DENY YOUR TRUE FEELINGS WE WERE MEANT FOR EACH OTHER!!!!!!! THREADS

ohhh brother.

[CheshireCat]

"R2-D2 IS THE SHIZZLE" THREADS

[Akshay]

i wanna thread