[centofanti]

what makes them necessary?
(i dont mean what causes them)


remember when you begin your answer, that we are talking about history of Christianity; and keep in mind who founded the Church and then who established the bible and when.

[Ted Logan]

Apostasy:

2Co 6:14 Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?
2Co 6:15 Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever?
2Co 6:16 Or what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said, "I WILL DWELL IN THEM AND WALK AMONG THEM; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
2Co 6:17 "Therefore, COME OUT FROM THEIR MIDST AND BE SEPARATE," says the Lord. "AND DO NOT TOUCH WHAT IS UNCLEAN; And I will welcome you.
2Co 6:18 "And I will be a father to you, And you shall be sons and daughters to Me," Says the Lord Almighty.

Any bishop or priest who denies the truth of the Christian faith as outlined in the Creeds or who refuses to acknowledge the authority of the Word of God is an apostate, and we are called to be separate from unbelievers.

Mat 7:15 "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
Mat 7:16 "You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?

2Co 11:12 But what I am doing I will continue to do, so that I may cut off opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the matter about which they are boasting.
2Co 11:13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.
2Co 11:14 No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
2Co 11:15 Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.

2Pe 2:1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.

2Pe 2:3 and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

Gal 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!


Schism is necessary when a contrary gospel is being preached.

[centofanti]

I meant Schism -- not a rejection of God, which is apostasy, the idea
2 Corinthians addresses.

1 Corinthians addresses the lack of unity; and other parts of the bible bear this out too...

Lord Luther? Lord Calvin? Lord Wesley? Lord Henry? Lord Apollo? Lord Peter?No, says Paul, only Lord and Savior Jesus. Christ is not divided-up . (see 1 Cor 1:10-13.)

"that there might be no schism in the body" (I Cor., 12:25).

Unity means unity to the Church:

When Christ built on Peter as on an unshakable foundation the indestructible edifice of His Church He thereby indicated its essential unity and especially the hierarchical unity (Matt xvi 18). He expressed the same thought when He referred to the faithful as a Kingdom and as a flock: "Other sheep I have, that are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice, and there shall be one fold and one shepherd" (John, x, 16).

Unity of faith and worship is more explicitly indicated by the words outlining the solemn mission of the Apostles: "Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost" (Matt., xxviii, 19). These various forms of unity are the object of the prayer after the Last Supper, when Christ prays for His own and asks "that they may be one" as the Father and the Son are one (John, xvii, 21, 22).

Those who violate the laws of unity shall become strangers to Christ and his spiritual family: "And if he will not hear the Church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican" (Matt., xviii, 17).

[centofanti]

More ideas of Paul's on the Church's unity:

In faithful imitation of his Master's teaching St. Paul often refers to the unity of the Church, describing it as one edifice, one body, a body between whose members exists the same solidarity as between the members of the human body (I Cor., xii; Eph., iv). He enumerates its various aspects and sources: "For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, . . . and in one Spirit we have all been made to drink" (I Cor xii, 13); "For we, being many, are one bread, one body, all that partake of one bread" (ibid., x, 17). He sums it up in the following formula: "One body and one Spirit; . . . one Lord, one faith, one baptism" (Eph., iv, 4-5). Finally he arrives at the logical conclusion when he anathematizes doctrinal novelties and the authors of them (Gal., i, 9), likewise when he writes to Titus: "A man that is a heretic, after the first and second admonition, avoid" (___., iii, 10); and again when he so energetically condemns the dissensions of the community of Corinth: "There are contentions among you. . . . every one of you saith: I am indeed of Paul; and I am of Apollo; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? Was Paul then crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?" (I Cor., i, 11-13). "Now, I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no schisms among you; but that you be perfect in the same mind, and in the same judgment" (I Cor., i, 10). St. Luke speaking in praise of the primitive church mentions its unanimity of belief, obedience, and worship: "They were persevering in the doctrine of the apostles, and in the communication of the breaking of bread, and in prayers" (Acts, ii, 42). All the first Epistle of St. John is directed against contemporary innovators and schismatics; and the author regards them as so foreign to the Church that in contrast to its members "the Children of God", he calls them "the children of the devil", (I John, iii, 10); the children "of the world" (iv, 5), even Antichrist (ii, 22; iv, 3).

[Ted Logan]

Originally Posted by centofanti

I meant Schism -- not a rejection of God, which is apostasy, the idea
2 Corinthians addresses.

And I am saying that apostasy is a justification of schism. If a church becomes apostate, the Church must reject it.

[centofanti]

According to Paul, the church, the body should NOT be divided-up. the "fold" should be one.

For example if i want to leave my family i cannot then say that i am my own father, mother and sister/brother. I cannot say that what i decide has nothing to do with my father b/c i am now my own father. that is what happens with a schism.

[Ted Logan]

If a church becomes apostate, they are no longer part of the Church and must be cut off. You seem to be asking more about divisions than schism.