overdrive at lower volumes?

georgeo · 02-21-2004, 09:29 PM

I have a Fender hot rod deluxe, and i like the clean channel on it, as well as the drive channels, but the problem i have is, i can't get it to overdrive at low enough volumes.

Is there anything i can do to help this situation?

**Rainer.** · 02-21-2004, 10:09 PM

I can just think of using a power attentuator.

spmantar · 02-21-2004, 11:25 PM

I would get a smaller amp with lower wattage, but since you like the sounds from the HRD, I agree with rainer.

Maybe Major Tom can enlighten you about a cheap alternative...

PianoMan · 02-22-2004, 12:26 AM

Volume Pedal?

Major Tom · 02-22-2004, 12:33 AM

Here's a reprint of an earlier post about a cheap L pad attenuator

Attenuators work great for getting power tube distortion at a manageable volume level. I use an L-pad mounted in my amps, which is the same thing as the "wall mount speaker attenuator". It works on the same basic principle as some of the expensive ones from THD, Marshall, etc.; 1 resistor in series, 1 in parallel, except the L pad is like a big volume control with 2 elements so it is continuously variable, instead of the multiple sets of fixed resistors. Some of the expensive ones a transformer like thing with multiple taps. I've been using them for several months now with no problems. The amptone link is not working right now, or I would check it out - I would guess it gives a schematic or diagram to wire it up. I just got a couple more in this week - 1 for a new amp I bought, and one for a dude that I promised to make one for.

I use part # 260-262 8 ohm L-pad from partsexpress.com ($5.90), I mount it on a bracket screwed to the side of the amp in the back along with a 1/4" jack, and wire it to a couple feet of speaker wire with a 1/4" plug on the end, so that it can be inserted between the amp's output and the speaker. Note that the L pad used must be the same impedance (ohms) as your total speaker load. There are also 4 ohm and 16 ohm versions. The L pad is rated at 100 watts, but since it is made overseas in a country that doesn't have the manufacturing standards of the USA, Canada, etc. I would cut that in half, and consider it 50 watts. Plus, that rating is for hi-fidelity music, not electric guitar. EDIT- lower that. If using heavier distortion, it will overheat with a 40 - 50 watt amp. For a clean to moderate OD player, it will be fine for 50 watters. Probably 30 watts max with heavy distortion.

EDIT - last time I checked, the 4 ohm is no longer available. For a 4 ohm amp output, you can use the stereo 8 ohm control, which is 2 8 ohm units stacked. Just wire a jumper from each of Pad "A" terminals to the corresponding terminal on the "B" pad - that will yield a 4 ohm control (I've tested it), and increase its power handling some too.

Using an attenuator and getting some power tube saturation IMO is better than just getting pre-amp distortion, it will get you closer to real cranked amp tone at much lower volumes, although not at ridiculously low volumes. There are still a couple ingredients missing from the magic of a full volume amp - speaker distortion, the interaction of the full volume sound waves slammin' yer guitar, + the Munson Fletcher effect (basically, things don't don't sound "right" at really low volumes). Personally, I don't care much for actual speaker distortion, it kinda reminds me of flatulence, so I don't miss that, but a little bit of speaker saturation I think is a good thing.

I have attached a PDF file that shows how to wire one - use the diagram for the MONO LEVEL CONTROL.

I have also added a picture of one mounted in the back of a PV, I also have one in my Hot Rod Deville

georgeo · 02-22-2004, 02:06 PM

I'm liking the sound of this.
One concern- how does it effect your clean channel?

Major Tom · 02-22-2004, 04:35 PM

An attenuator "throws away" some of the power between the amp and the speaker. If your amp starts to break up a little on the clean channel at about 6, it will still do that at 6 - it just won't be as loud with the attenuator.

georgeo · 02-22-2004, 04:55 PM

heres my understanding of this: the power attenuator weakens the signal(lowers the volume, i dont' know the proper terminology) from the amp to the speaker, so the amp can run at higher levels, while the output from the speaker is lower.

is that bascially right?

its just a 1/4 cable job, no soldering or anything?

what all would i need to buy to install this?
can i install it myself? (safely)

thanks alot,
David

Major Tom · 02-22-2004, 07:32 PM

Quote:

heres my understanding of this: the power attenuator weakens the signal(lowers the volume, i dont' know the proper terminology) from the amp to the speaker, so the amp can run at higher levels, while the output from the speaker is lower.

Well, yes except the output TO the speaker is lowered - but you have the jist of it.

You could do it with crimp-on connectors - like the ones used on speakers ( but narrower), although it would be more permanent to solder. Look at the picture I attached in my previous post, there are 3 terminals on the L pad, wired to the 1/4" jack on its bracket, and a cable with a 1/4" plug on the end.

Quote:

what all would i need to buy to install this?
can i install it myself? (safely)

Not dangerous to install, its only speaker voltage - just gotta make sure you wire it up right, its not hard.

You need an 8 ohm L pad (partsexpress.com), a 1/4" jack, 1/4" plug, a metal bracket (hardware store) and a couple feet of 18-2 cable. I'm thinkin' about makin some up and tryin' to sell them on Ebay.

If you need any more help, send me a PM.

spmantar · 02-22-2004, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Major Tom

I'm thinkin' about makin some up and tryin' to sell them on Ebay.

Ooh, that would be nice. I would definitely get one of those for my amp I will get in some indefinite time.

LWatford · 02-23-2004, 02:38 AM

I've seen you post this before, and I wanted to ask you what kind of amps you run this setup with...

**redbaron** · 02-23-2004, 03:22 AM

if you feel like you can't bulid one of those, Marshall builds a product called the "Power Brake" that does exactly that and comes in a nice shiny black case.

A friend of mine had one with his fender prosonic, and it was quite delicious. It's just a more expensive less work method of getting to the same place.

Major Tom · 02-23-2004, 06:23 PM

Quote:

I've seen you post this before, and I wanted to ask you what kind of amps you run this setup with...

I use it in 3 amps (1 mounted in each)

Peavy Bravo #1 (modded 2xEL84 20 watt tube combo)
Peavy Bravo #2 same as above, different speaker
Fender Hot Rod Deville 4x10

The hardest thing about puttin' one together is the bracket to mount it on, you have to drill the right size holes for the L pad and the 1/4" jack.

Guitar MC · 02-26-2004, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Major Tom

I'm thinkin' about makin some up and tryin' to sell them on Ebay.

If you do this I would definatly get one. I would make it myself, but I am not going to be home with my amp more than a few days at a time untill the end of the summer, and I will be too busy to do that.

-Trey

gstrat59 · 05-09-2009, 09:02 PM

Wonder if this would work on a peavy classic 50 four ten combo? not sure what the ohm rating is on it but it would be nice to open the clean sound up a bit with out outragious stage volume.
I use a clear shield in front of the amp to help combat the beaming effect and volume problems.