Are all children born - meant to be born? All a blessing from God?

OverRunWithSons · 02-20-2004, 04:05 PM

Maybe I should know the answer to this, maybe I am making it more complex than it needs to be. I am not faced with a unplanned pregnancy or thinking about having another child. But a friend is, her 10th and we got into a discussion and she thought I was not encouraging her to have #10. She believes all children are meant to be - if you can get pregnant, it must be God's will, and I look at it a little different. Thinking not all things that happen are HIS Divine Plan, just that He allows these things by our choices- whether good or bad. She agrees with that, except for Children. I brought up Sarah and Abraham- how she was impatient & shoos he husband off for another woman & here comes Ishmael - the Bible is almost written as though this child was not "meant to be"- in the perfect plan of things. Awfully unfair to him I would certainly agree. And what about all the millions of children born out of wedlock, with no fathers, in foster care, orphanages, world hunger, etc etc. Are all these children MEANT to be born into this chaos? Maybe this is a "Predistination" question....or is God against Birth Control question? Or is it that Most of the Christian world is just not doing their part in helping these children who were born into hopelessness--that are meant to be born?? I am just plain confused. Thank you all.

***BillSPrestonEsq*** · 02-20-2004, 04:28 PM

You know, C/A be left alone. God foreknew everyone who would walk this planet. He allowed and intervened to make us all be born. Now, even children born in hell-holes have meaningful lives.

So what is the deal?

Is B/C wrong? I think so only if it kills a life in existence.

Bastard Children? Shall we round them up and shoot them? I mean what is the question? Did God want me not born?

I think the answer is in your last question.

The church as a whole does not love Christ. They leave him in the gutter starving, alone in prison, naked, hungry and alone. And on judgement day we will pay for our works of wood hay and stubble.

Dice · 02-20-2004, 05:11 PM

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And on judgement day we will pay for our works of wood hay and stubble.

Ummm, Christ was punished for sins. Unless you mean the unsaved within the earthly institution of "church".

**Sean** · 02-20-2004, 05:25 PM

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Originally Posted by Danomir

Ummm, Christ was punished for sins. Unless you mean the unsaved within the earthly institution of "church".

Romans 2:1-9

**Sean** · 02-20-2004, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OverRunWithSons

But a friend is, her 10th and we got into a discussion and she thought I was not encouraging her to have #10. She believes all children are meant to be - if you can get pregnant, it must be God's will, and I look at it a little different.

If its God's will you'll get pregnet whether you use birth control or not. Further, her logic is very foolish the way you've described it. If I walk in front of a semi-truck, it must be God's will that I turn into street meat. Obviously this is faulty logic. If you're fertile individuals, having sex means you will get pregnet. Just like its not wise to blindly walk in front of a semi-truck, its not wise to thoughtlessly have sex, have 37 kids and go "its God's will." Using some thought and planning is definately a good idea.

....yes they were predestined to exist whether the person uses birth control or not. You don't pull a fast one on God.

KFBobInsanesMom · 02-20-2004, 06:09 PM

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Originally Posted by Sean

Just like its not wise to blindly walk in front of a semi-truck, its not wise to thoughtlessly have sex, have 37 kids and go "its God's will." Using some thought and planning is definately a good idea.

....yes they were predestined to exist whether the person uses birth control or not. You don't pull a fast one on God.

Can you or anyone else for that matter, show me any verse from scripture that says that we are to think and plan when to have children?? I see this argument so often, and I can not find one single thing in scripture about children where this is even alluded to.....

"Thoughtlessly having sex"?? If you read the Bible, there is one reason/time given of when it is right for a married couple to abstain from sex.... to prevent getting pregnant is NOT the reason. Also read Psalm 127 1 Unless the LORD builds the house, They labor in vain who build it; Unless the LORD guards the city, The watchman keeps awake in vain. 2 It is vain for you to rise up early, To retire late, To eat the bread of painful labors; For He gives to His beloved {even in his} sleep. 3 Behold, children are a gift of the LORD, The fruit of the womb is a reward. 4 Like arrows in the hand of a warrior, So are the children of one's youth. 5 How blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them.....

Are you not in part " building the house" on your own if you use your wisdom to decide when or if to have children??? I'm not in to archery, but I doubt a warrior would consider a quiver to be full if it had no arrows, or only one, or even two.......

KFBobInsanesMom · 02-20-2004, 06:19 PM

Think about when the woman poured the contents of the alabaster box ( the precious ointment ) on Jesus feet and wiped them with her hair.... what did He say in response to those who complained about " the waste" of the value of the ointment and how it could have been used to help the poor..... He said there will be poor always. Family planning, only those wealthy enough to care for children, etc.... will not stop poverty....there will always be poor struggling just to survive.

God says children are gifts and blessings and to be desired.... seems wise to agree with Him in my humble opinion.

**Sean** · 02-20-2004, 06:31 PM

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Originally Posted by KFBobInsanesMom

Can you or anyone else for that matter, show me any verse from scripture that says that we are to think and plan when to have children?? I see this argument so often, and I can not find one single thing in scripture about children where this is even alluded to.....

Can you give me an example of God ever encouraging foolishness?

***BillSPrestonEsq*** · 02-20-2004, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danomir

Ummm, Christ was punished for sins. Unless you mean the unsaved within the earthly institution of "church".

Danomir, I was reffering to this passage.

1 Cor. 3:10-15 (ESV)
According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and someone else is building upon it. Let each one take care how he builds upon it. [11] For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. [12] Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— [13] each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. [14] If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. [15] If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

Which is speaking of the saved.

KFBobInsanesMom · 02-20-2004, 06:35 PM

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Originally Posted by Sean

Can you give me an example of God ever encouraging foolishness?

Having sex inside marriage is something you consider foolishness???? Are you implying that couples who have say 8 or more children are foolish???

**Sean** · 02-20-2004, 06:37 PM

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Originally Posted by KFBobInsanesMom

Having sex inside marriage is something you consider foolishness????

Strawman arguments won't go a long way to win debates.

KFBobInsanesMom · 02-20-2004, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

Strawman arguments won't go a long way to win debates.

I'm not trying to " win a debate" .... I'm showing how God views children.... sex inside marriage is commanded.... sex can lead to children.... children are Gods gifts and blessings and rewards to people.....

KFBobInsanesMom · 02-20-2004, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

Strawman arguments won't go a long way to win debates.

I am still wondering if you can give me even one scripture to back up your opinion.....

**Sean** · 02-20-2004, 06:51 PM

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Originally Posted by KFBobInsanesMom

I'm not trying to " win a debate" .... I'm showing how God views children.... sex inside marriage is commanded.... sex can lead to children.... children are Gods gifts and blessings and rewards to people.....

right....and I'm not trying to "win a debate" ....I'm trying to explain how its wise to plan out how you're going to take care of your "gifts and blessings and rewards" from God. IT IS FOOLISH TO HAVE 10 KIDS IF YOU CAN'T FEED 3 KIDS. Planning ahead is a wise course of action. God calls us to be good stewards of all that He blesses us with. You seem to think

Quote:

Are you implying that couples who have say 8 or more children are foolish???

Wrecklessly having 8 kids and not taking care of them is not only sinful, immoral, and unethical, it also just happens to disgust me. It is not foolish to have 8 kids. Its foolish to foolishly have kids you can't take care of. There are people that aren't suitable to have 1 child, let alone 8. The simple fact that having sex leads to babys doesn't mean these peopel should have babys. Parenting skills, spiritual maturity, resources....these are all really nice things when trying to have kids. If you don't have money, parenting skills, spirtual maturity, maturity period....maybe you shouldn't have kids yet. In fact, I know some families where there are like 8 kids and they are all so socially inept I'd say it boaders on child abuse just not legally. Maybe they should have planned ahead.

Why shouldn't we plan ahead and attempt to make for a scenario where one can best take care of God's blessings?

Scott · 02-20-2004, 06:52 PM

I would say having 8 children inside marriage is foolishness, as unless you were very well off, you couldn't provide adequately for them.