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Unread 02-18-2004, 03:03 PM   #16
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I think everyone knows I don't like Fenders. Every one will hate me now but I do not like them here or there I do not like them anywhere.

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Unread 02-18-2004, 03:11 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesus freak!!
I think everyone knows I don't like Fenders. Every one will hate me now but I do not like them here or there I do not like them anywhere.
Well Then.

I love Strats...but I don't hate you
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Unread 02-18-2004, 05:48 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesus freak!!
I think everyone knows I don't like Fenders. Every one will hate me now but I do not like them here or there I do not like them anywhere.
Channeling a little Dr. Suess are you?

Green Eggs and Ham, anyone?



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Unread 02-18-2004, 07:05 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainer123
Actually, guitar shape has absolutely nothing to do with the tone of the guitar. Unless it's acoustic. It only matters how much wood there is. What do you mean by dynamics?
Not true. The shape of the guitar has a lot to do with it. You can get a two guitars made of the same tree, necks, pickups and finish, one as a tele body and one as a strat and they will have different resonant qualities.
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Unread 02-18-2004, 07:16 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trpullen
Not true. The shape of the guitar has a lot to do with it. You can get a two guitars made of the same tree, necks, pickups and finish, one as a tele body and one as a strat and they will have different resonant qualities.
Thats because there is more wood in the guitar, Tele in this case. Personally I think Strats sound thicker than Teles do.
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Unread 02-18-2004, 08:14 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trpullen
Not true. The shape of the guitar has a lot to do with it. You can get a two guitars made of the same tree, necks, pickups and finish, one as a tele body and one as a strat and they will have different resonant qualities.
Well, obviously, but the impact of shape alone, provided everything else was identical, would be negligible. I mean, remember, we are talking about LP's, Strats, Teles, and so on, all radically different guitars in terms of construction, hardware, and pickups, even with two such close siblings as the Strat and the Tele.

In fact, do this. Let's say as a for instance that we took a Tele and a Strat, and gave them identical necks (or as identical as possible, say with a hybrid headstock). Now, let's have four test guitars, all with the same hybrid necks. Now, we have a standard Tele and a standard Strat with the hybrid necks, and then we create a custom Tele and Strat body. Using some calculus, we find out the exact wood volume of the regular Strat body and Tele body (which will be our test group or "control" group). And to make things simple, they are both solid Ash.

Now, we take a wood blank of Ash, cut from the same log of wood as the other bodies, we carve an identical in scale Strat body from the blank, scaled down to the exact volume of the Tele body, and the same with a Tele body scaled up to the exact volue of the Strat body. Get the picture?

Now, we take the actual Tele body (the "Control Tele") and the indentically scaled Strat body and do all of the exact same routing and construction, using identical parts, making to identical Teles, the only difference being that one Tele is in the shape of a Strat, but everything else is the same.

Next, we do that same thing with the Control Strat and the identically scaled Tele body, making to "identical" Strats, with the only difference being that one of them is shaped like a Tele.

Now, the necks are all identical, and all cut from the same piece of maple, and even have the same hybrid headstock. We could even take this one step further, being that these guitars are modular, and just simply transfer the pickups and electronics from one instrument to the other, but I think that's overkill.

So, the only difference would be the shape of the bodies, and nothing else.

Then we play these instruments thru the same amp and record it. Then we have people listen and see if they can figure out which is which.

Do you think there would be that big of a difference? Probably not. Remember, everything is identical, all the way down to the actual volume of the wood. The only thing different is the shape.

Chesh
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Last edited by CheshireCat; 02-18-2004 at 08:21 PM.
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Unread 02-18-2004, 10:26 PM   #22
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Yeah, they actually would have different properties...and I would bet most of us could tell the difference. Here are a few things to consider.

1) The neck pocket of the strat and tele are different. There is more body touching neck because there is only one cutaway. More surface area touching, more sonic transfer between them. This is one reason that Tele's typically sound "tighter".

2) The position of the bridge on the body makes a difference.

3) How much wood surrounds the bridge on all sides?

4) You could also consider that if we are matching volume (total water displacement) you are going to get a thicker body on the tele to make up for the smaller size of the body.

All this comes into play in a small way adding up to a noticeable difference.
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Unread 02-18-2004, 11:16 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Dave_01
Well Then.

I love Strats...but I don't hate you
Your ok because because you play a Ibenez 570
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Unread 02-18-2004, 11:35 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trpullen
Yeah, they actually would have different properties...and I would bet most of us could tell the difference. Here are a few things to consider.

1) The neck pocket of the strat and tele are different. There is more body touching neck because there is only one cutaway. More surface area touching, more sonic transfer between them. This is one reason that Tele's typically sound "tighter".

2) The position of the bridge on the body makes a difference.

3) How much wood surrounds the bridge on all sides?

4) You could also consider that if we are matching volume (total water displacement) you are going to get a thicker body on the tele to make up for the smaller size of the body.

All this comes into play in a small way adding up to a noticeable difference.
Okay, read what I said again.

Identical necks, headstock to heal, with even identical headstocks (same wood from the same log and everything) and the EXACT SAME TOTAL VOLUME of wood, with the exact same hardware in each case study.

Trial #1: Control Strat and Tele shaped Strat
Trial #2: Control Tele and Strat shaped Tele

Shaped = Exact 3D rendering of the target body proportionately scaled up or down to match the exact volume of wood of the control body. (You know, a little CAD assisted CNC action, or something to that effect.)

Your original assertion was that the shape itself made a significant difference. In this virtual experiement, we've isolated out all other factors down to it being strictly a question of shape, everything else being equal and identical.

Chesh
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Last edited by CheshireCat; 02-18-2004 at 11:52 PM.
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Unread 02-18-2004, 11:44 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CheshireCat
Trial #1: Control Strat and Tele shaped Strat
Trial #2: Control Tele and Strat shaped Tele

Chesh
Chesh...put the JOLT down and step away from the keyboard.
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Unread 02-18-2004, 11:55 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trpullen
Chesh...put the JOLT down and step away from the keyboard.
You make an assertion, I offer a rebuttal and an example by way of hypothetical postulate, and you suggest that I'm all jitters on caffiene overload, or perchance reactionary?

You pose an interesting question. I was simply responding. Is that how you address every rebuttal?



Chesh

PS - Besides, given the overly analytical nature of my postulate and somber tone, you'd think I was on quaaludes, not caffiene.
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Thought for the day . . . . Is the philosophical proof "pics or it didn't happen" a valid proof? Inquiring minds want to know.

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Last edited by CheshireCat; 02-19-2004 at 12:08 AM.
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Unread 02-19-2004, 10:16 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CheshireCat
PS - Besides, given the overly analytical nature of my postulate and somber tone, you'd think I was on quaaludes, not caffiene.
It was midnight. You might have been on something...
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Unread 02-19-2004, 10:49 AM   #28
...anybody want a neaput?
 
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I think we should follow Chesh's hypothetical postulate to its conclusion. To do this, we need to set up a scientific guitar laboratory. Since I already work in the quality assurance engineering field, I hereby volunteer to host the laboratory at my house. I will supply all the scientific testing and measuring instruments; however, I need all active Guitar Forum members to send $50 (cash, American) to:

The Scientific Christian Guitar Laboratory
c/o BurntHombre

I will use this money to procure all the musical instruments and gear necessary to undertake this daunting task. Forum members may also choose to simply send me their personal musical instruments/gear in lieu of cash; that is acceptable.

Please, people: it's for Science.
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Unread 02-19-2004, 11:06 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by BurntHombre
I think we should follow Chesh's hypothetical postulate to its conclusion. To do this, we need to set up a scientific guitar laboratory. Since I already work in the quality assurance engineering field, I hereby volunteer to host the laboratory at my house. I will supply all the scientific testing and measuring instruments; however, I need all active Guitar Forum members to send $50 (cash, American) to:

The Scientific Christian Guitar Laboratory
c/o BurntHombre

I will use this money to procure all the musical instruments and gear necessary to undertake this daunting task. Forum members may also choose to simply send me their personal musical instruments/gear in lieu of cash; that is acceptable.

Please, people: it's for Science.
Excellent idea! I fully concur.

In fact, BH and I just PM'ed each other and it has been decided that I would be the Chief Financial Officer and Procurement Director, whilst our esteemed colleague, BH, will be the Director of Laboratory Activities and will carry out the majority of experiements. We need to support BH's ability to carry out these experiements, so, please, don't weigh him down with all of your shipments and correspondance. He has serious work to do. Besides, he's confided in me that he doesn't want it. He would rather get to work working on testing these hypotheses.

Therefore, send me the money and guitars to this address:

The Scientific Christian Guitar Laboratory
c/o CheshireCat

Please people, BH needs our help, and this is for science.

Sincerely
Chesh

PS - The Scientific Christian Guitar Laboratory is in no way affiliated with The Church of Christ, Scientist. However, they have a lovely reading room.
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If the doors of perception were cleansed, every thing would appear to man as it is, infinite. --William Blake

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Unread 02-19-2004, 12:31 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CheshireCat
You pose an interesting question. I was simply responding. Is that how you address every rebuttal?
I just don't have a clue what a strat shaped tele or a tele shaped strat is. Without that, a rebuttal is nothing more that speculation....so I chose sarcasm.
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Acoustics: 2003 Taylor 855ce-LTD L1 (Brazilian), 1993 Taylor 810, 2005 Taylor K4 preamp, 2006 ESP XTone PA1 (Sunburst)
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