The Most Biblical Form of Government

**+Donny** · 01-29-2004, 10:21 PM

I would check out E. C. Wines and his book The Hebrew Republic. It is a very good description of the government of OT Israel.

Benny Hicks · 01-29-2004, 10:49 PM

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Originally Posted by ¤

In Deut 16:18, God instructed the Israelites to choose for themselves judges and officers. What was given to them was the towns/nation, not knowledge of who all their/its officials should be

Oops. I just looked at it again and realized that I butchered it with my first glance. Thanks for clearing that up.

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Originally Posted by ¤

The king serves primarily as a legistaor, as far as I can tell, interacting with the elders in some way to make the laws.

Ok, would that be his only function?

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Originally Posted by ¤

This is a subject you could fill books with. If you are interested in this particular topic, I can recommend a couple (or better yet have Travis recommend a couple, I think he is much more well read than I.)

I would love to pick up some books on this, but unfortunately I have so much reading required for school that I really wouldn't be able to read them for a while.

Ben

**+Donny** · 01-29-2004, 11:13 PM

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Ok, would that be his only function?

The king was also a judge, as seen in Solomon.

Though I just said it, I can't stress enough the value of reading through Wines' book. It really solidified the seemingly scattered references to the structure of government in the OT and brought it together to show that it was a very coherent, republican system of government.

JerryLove · 01-30-2004, 05:58 AM

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Right, but Jesus was not attempting to lay the foundations for a political system.

Exactly, and what government lacks a politicial system? Anarchy.

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What of what Paul wrote in Romans 13 about the government being God's vessel for exacting wrath upon those who practice evil?

Tells you how God uses government, doesn't address what kind at all.

Travis · 01-30-2004, 06:45 AM

Dispensationalism can be debated elsewhere, Jerry. I think the reason Jesus didn't propose a ton of things regarding government is because continuity between the Testaments was supposed to be taken for granted unless taught otherwise (Matthew 5:17-20).

JerryLove · 01-30-2004, 09:22 AM

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Dispensationalism can be debated elsewhere, Jerry. I think the reason Jesus didn't propose a ton of things regarding government is because continuity between the Testaments was supposed to be taken for granted unless taught otherwise (Matthew 5:17-20).

We are debating it elsewhere. I think that the old covenant was fulfilled (Matthew 5:17-20) and the new covenant does not promote a given form of government.

Benny Hicks · 01-30-2004, 10:20 AM

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Originally Posted by JerryLove

Exactly, and what government lacks a politicial system? Anarchy.

Jerry, seriously, do you believe that America could survive if anarchy was the political system?

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Originally Posted by JerryLove

Tells you how God uses government, doesn't address what kind at all.

Since anarchy is the lack of government, and God uses government for a specific purpose, God obviously does not prefer governments to rule through anarchy.

Ben

Mike Graham · 01-30-2004, 10:32 AM

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Originally Posted by Benny Hicks

Ok, would that be his only function?

As Donnypointed out, he would also serve in a judicial capacity, as well as some type of military role and leader, I would think, of diplomatic actions.

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Originally Posted by Benny Hicks

I would love to pick up some books on this, but unfortunately I have so much reading required for school that I really wouldn't be able to read them for a while.

I would still recommend reading some when you do have more time.

JerryLove · 01-30-2004, 10:46 AM

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Jerry, seriously, do you believe that America could survive if anarchy was the political system?

No, I do not. Anarchy, like most utopian ideals relies on a benevolence and self-responsability which is not part of the human psyche. It would fail just as communism did.

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Since anarchy is the lack of government, and God uses government for a specific purpose, God obviously does not prefer governments to rule through anarchy.

Falls a bit onto a symantic argument... it's much as if I had said "the true religion is athesim" and you aregued that atheism wasn't a religion. YOu are correct, but not really responsive.

Anarchism is a political theory holding all forms of governmental authority to be unnecessary and undesirable and advocating a society based on voluntary cooperation and free association of individuals and groups. It is a utopian system which, while terriffic in theory, fails in practice.

Jas de F · 01-31-2004, 01:30 PM

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Originally Posted by JerryLove

We are debating it elsewhere. I think that the old covenant was fulfilled (Matthew 5:17-20) and the new covenant does not promote a given form of government.

What are you talking about, Jerry? You're a Buddhist (or whatever). You don't even believe in the old and new covenants. For you to say "I think that the old covenant was fulfilled" would be like me saying "I think Mother Goose is fat (Mother Goose Rhymes, chapter 5, page 2, paragrah 3)." You're a Buddhist, not a Christian...unless I'm quite wrong, then Scripture means as much to you as Mother Goose rhymes mean to me.

miller · 01-31-2004, 01:38 PM

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Originally Posted by Rep Me

What are you talking about, Jerry? You're a Buddhist (or whatever). You don't even believe in the old and new covenants. For you to say "I think that the old covenant was fulfilled" would be like me saying "I think Mother Goose is fat (Mother Goose Rhymes, chapter 5, page 2, paragrah 3)." You're a Buddhist, not a Christian...unless I'm quite wrong, then Scripture means as much to you as Mother Goose rhymes mean to me.

jerry is not a buddhist, get your facts straight.

Jas de F · 01-31-2004, 01:42 PM

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Originally Posted by miller

jerry is not a buddhist, get your facts straight.

Buddhist, Hindu, whatever. I can't find the thread where he posted about his "beliefs." Whatever religion-of-sorts he claims my point still stands.

edit: ah, found it. Daoist. as a Daoist, Jerry "advocates preserving and restoring the Tao in the body and the cosmos" not in the old and the new covenants.

JerryLove · 02-02-2004, 11:20 AM

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What are you talking about, Jerry? You're a Buddhist (or whatever). You don't even believe in the old and new covenants. For you to say "I think that the old covenant was fulfilled" would be like me saying "I think Mother Goose is fat (Mother Goose Rhymes, chapter 5, page 2, paragrah 3)." You're a Buddhist, not a Christian...unless I'm quite wrong, then Scripture means as much to you as Mother Goose rhymes mean to me.

I think the fall of Sauron at the end of the Second age ended the alliance of men and elves. It does not matter that I believe the works to be fictional. I'm discussing what the Bible says, I do not have to believe the story to be true to understand it.

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Buddhist, Hindu, whatever. I can't find the thread where he posted about his "beliefs." Whatever religion-of-sorts he claims my point still stands.

Simpleist is "I'm atheist"... I'm listed in some parts as a "Daoist", which pilosophically I am; but metaphysically I'm atheistic.

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edit: ah, found it. Daoist. as a Daoist, Jerry "advocates preserving and restoring the Tao in the body and the cosmos" not in the old and the new covenants.

Actually, I believe that following my path will make me happeir than resisting it.