[Al Webber]

I know that plays some into the design of the sets at my church

When you say "design of the sets" - does this mean that you have a rigid set laid out before the service or is there room for flexibility as the Holy Spirit leads?

I would never go into a service without a list of songs that I had picked in advance with prayer but its a starting point not a rigid list. I will generally have several extra songs ready if they are needed and I may change the order or leave other songs out if I feel that that is the right thing to do. There are times it seems right to do a song that was not on the original list. This is rare, especially as I pray when I prepare and hopefully I am being led by the Spirit but we need to have the flexibility to step out. Sometimes I believe that the Holy Spirit leads this way to make us dependent on him. If we have it all rigidly planned out in advance then its too easy to try to do it in our own strength.

Regarding the fast songs to slow songs thing I think we have developed our own traditions that we have become comfortable with in the same way as many of the previous generation got comfortable with nothing but hymns. This can be a problem if we refuse to go along with the Holy Spirit because it doesn't fit our traditions. I know many in the congregation are comfortable if the service has the same structure every week but I don't think its a good habit to get into.

Al

[Rhythm_guy]

Good point, Al. Churches are developing new "traditions" and "ways" today just like back in the old days they developed their "traditions" and "ways" based on the culture of that time. Once upon a time it was considered sacriligeous (?) to play a piano (a barroom instrument) in a church. Then it bacame the standard, and some folks are still resistant to using guitars today because the piano is THE church instrument.

Musical "style" preferences of church leadership is key. I'm fortunate enough to be in a fairly large church with a 30 year old pastor, and a 70's rocker for a worship leader. They are not set in traditional ways, and are open to new ideas. (Major Tom - based on your comments you would love it.) Our elders are also more concerned about loving God than following tradition, even though some of them have been around a long time. We are for the most part a very young church, but have some in their 70's & even 80's that love our upbeat praise & worship. At the same time there are young people who will not attend our church because they don't think the music is appropriate.

I don't believe musical style preferences will be found in the scriptures. That is unique to individuals. It's nice when a group of individuals with similar musical taste attend church together. But everybody needs Jesus, regardless of what flavor of music you serve up, so it would be nice to have something for everybody.

As far as a "formula" of fast to slow, I don't know that that can be found in scripture, either, but as I said earlier "praise" and "worship" are 2 different things, and both are important.

[Indazone]

Yeah, I agree Al - there needs to be room to make changes if the Holy Spirit leads you. There have been times at our youth group when we have ended our night with extended worship, or the leader has gone in a certain direction he didn't initially intend to.

Unfortunately, our singles ministry is different. They have the entire night planned right down to every minute, and if something goes over, the director gets pissed! Every week it's 3 songs (how sad...) and done.

[Jesus freak!!]

I think most christans dont let the Holy Spirit lead them in there day to day life. So to think GOD could tell you to change songs at the last sec is total foreign...How sad I praise God for the Holy Spirit

[Jepper74]

Originally Posted by Indazone

From a logistical issue, I think *part* of the reason our youth group song set follows that pattern regularly is because we start our program out with the music. Students are generally hyper when they come in, so I think we play into that a bit and play upbeat songs first, then gradually shift it down for a calmer mood during the sermon/message/whatever.

Not saying it's right or wrong, but I know that plays some into the design of the sets at my church.

This is the exact same reason that my church does what it does! No one wants to come in from being all hyper and have to sing slow songs.. you gotta get there progressively. Also at the end when the songs slow down it helps calm them all down so they'll be more attentive. That's just the way I think works best..

[regulon]

In other words, emotionalism

[Tony]

Originally Posted by regulon

In other words, emotionalism

not necessarily.

Steering the focus of the flow of a worship service is not emotional manipulation by default. It's basic group dynamics to engage people people to participate, then eventually be an active listener to the message/homily, to serious self-examination prior to partaking of the Lord's Table. Is that what you call emotionalism?

[Shredcheddar]

Originally Posted by Jesus freak!!

I think most christans dont let the Holy Spirit lead them in there day to day life. So to think GOD could tell you to change songs at the last sec is total foreign...How sad I praise God for the Holy Spirit

I'm sort of tangled in confusion at your post, so correct me if I'm wrong.. but I disagree with what you're saying. Are you dissapointed that we should have to "rely on" God's spontaneousness, and that His intervening is a result of not focusing on song selection with God's purposes in mind? If so, I don't think that assumption should be made due to the specifity of your example.

If you could clarify a bit more..

[Jay Tea]

Originally Posted by Al Webber

Sometimes I believe that the Holy Spirit leads this way to make us dependent on him. If we have it all rigidly planned out in advance then its too easy to try to do it in our own strength.

Funny...it's seemed to me that planning in advance makes me rely more on God and less on my perception of how things are going. It also keeps me from being lazy and doing a bunch of songs in the same key in a row

On the fast -> slow idea...people tend to react differently to different "feels" of music. People come into church distracted. That's true. It's also not something we musicians have much control over. Pastor's and teachers and disciplers and whoever can exhort people to prepare their hearts and minds before coming to church, but until they do, it's just something we have to deal with when planning worship. I've found that more upbeat songs tend to get people's attention better than slower songs that take longer to develop. Now, there are certain times when I think it'd be very appropriate to start off the service with a song that doesn't happen to be very upbeat (O Come, O Come, Immanuel during Advent, say), but then I'll often try to structure the prelude and any opening words or Scripture to signal that things are going to be a little different; it gives people a bit of a heads up so that they can be ready.

[regulon]

Originally Posted by tonyh

not necessarily.

Steering the focus of the flow of a worship service is not emotional manipulation by default. It's basic group dynamics to engage people people to participate, then eventually be an active listener to the message/homily, to serious self-examination prior to partaking of the Lord's Table. Is that what you call emotionalism?

I was playing my chances, and thinking that it probably is emotionalism, what with the "calming down" and being "hyper"...

But eh, I guess I was being too pessimistic...ma bad

[Nate]

Originally Posted by Jesus freak!!

So to think GOD could tell you to change songs at the last sec is total foreign...

Why would God wait until the last second to "tell you to change songs"?

In His love,
Nate

[benj]

Originally Posted by KeyboardFreak

Why would God wait until the last second to "tell you to change songs"?

In His love,
Nate

Because He thinks spontaneity is more exciting, duh.

[Jay Tea]

Oh, I always thought He was just tricky like that.

[R2D2]

I'm not sure if anyone still cares, but another article that I think is excellent is "A Matter of Taste?" by Frank Burch Brown, found in More than a Worship Band: A Reader Multi-Dimensional Contemporary Worship and the September 13th, 2000 issue of The Christian Century. The article has certainly influenced my thinking, including the stuff I posted above. The last section of the article is particularly informative--Brown gives us some guidelines. Here they are:

Testing Christian Taste: Twelve Guidelines
1. There are many kinds of good taste, and many kinds of religious art and music. In view of cultural diversity, it would be extremely odd if that were not true.

2. Not all kinds of good art and music are equally appropriate for worship, let alone for every tradition or faith community. In terms of worship, therefore, it is not enough that a work or style of art be likable; it must also be appropriate.

3. There are various appropriately Christan modes of mediating relgious experience artistically--from radically transcendent to radically immanent in a sense of the holy; from exuberantly abundant to starkly minimal in means; from prophetic to pastoral in tone; from instructive to meditative in aim.

4. Every era and cultural context tends to develop new forms of good sacred music and art, which to begin with often seem secular.

5. Because every musical / aesthetic style calls for a particular kind of attunement, no one person can be competent to make equally discerning judgments about every kind of music. Yet almost everyone is inclined to assume or act otherwise. That impulse is related to the sin of pride.

6. It is an act of Christian love to learn to appreciate or at least respect what others value in a particular style or work that they cherish in worship or in the rest of life. That is different, however, from personally liking every form of commendable art, which is impossible and unnecessary.

7. Disagreements over taste in religous music (or any other art) can be healthy and productive; but they touch on sensitive matters and often reflect or embody religious differences as well as aesthetic ones.

8. The reasons why an aesthetic work or style is good or bad, weak or strong (and in what circumstances), can never be expressed fully in words; yet they can often be pointed out through comparative--and repeated--looking and listening.

9. Aesthetic judgments begin with, and owe special consideration to, the community or tradition to which a given style or work is indigenous or most familiar. But they seldom end there; and they cannot, if the style or work is to invite attention of a wide range of people over a period of time.

10. The evaluation of art used in worship needs to be done jointly by clergy, congregation, and trained artists and musicians, taking into account not only aesthetic qualities of the art itself but also the larger requirements and contours of worship, which should at once respond to and orient the particular work of art or music.

11. While relative accessibility is imperative for most church art, the church also needs art--including "classic" art of various kinds--that continually challenges and solicits spiritual and theological growth in the aesthetic dimension. This is art that the Christian can grow into but seldom out of.

12. Almost every artistic style that has been enjoyed and valued by a particular group over a long period of time and for a wide range of purposes has religious potential. That is because life typically finds various and surprising ways of turning religious. As Augustine said, our hearts are restless until they rest in God.

I think this is extremely informative and applicable to the topic at hand.

[Shredcheddar]

Originally Posted by R2D2

I'm not sure if anyone still cares

Thanks, I do