[smitty2622]

realist999- Of course i have. Life. I was referring to my life experiences.

That’s what I was talking about, Life..

smitty- You have told all of us that you used to believe.

realist999- I was referring to my experiences

I don’t remember the thread, but I thought you said you used to believe if this is a mistake sorry..

realist999- Well in this case you are VERY different from me, are you not? I know I can learn a lot at college. Also, with somber, do you mean sober? Such as refraining from alcohol? If so I never said that.

Yes we are very different probably in many ways. Yes I meant sober, you refraining from alcohol was an assumption I don’t think you could function very well in collage if you were drunk or high all the time, I didn’t mean that you never drink. How would I know that?

realist999- They did not. They are from common sense.

So none of your values are from experience? Or your up bringing?
Come on I can admit when you are right.

realist999- Simple. Lying causes confusion and pain. It pisses people off when you lie to them, and pisses you off when people lie to you. You want to know how things really are, not for someone to lie about it. That makes this an undesirable behavior.

Yes I know that’s what I mean, so does stealing, murder, adultery, ect. These things bother everyone. They also are in Gods basic laws the 10 commandments.


realist999- Something, as in reality.

Sure if you want to look at it that way reality is something, it also can be seen several different ways by different people.

realist999- somewhat. Yet it is well known that a 13 year old is a child by definition. An 18 year-old while often more immature than older adults is still an adult, and much more mature than a 13 year old. Stress on often.

True.

realist999- I am not sure as to who you are referring. There are probably people in third world countries living in boxes that DID have a greater overall level of intelligence and capability for learning, and could have been smarter than us, but while we learned they did not. I doubt anyone that is illiterate is actually smarter than me or you.

This is the book thing again, I am talking about knowledge of life that cant be taught in school or church for that matter..

realist999- didn't you know that’s why I came to this board?
Again thank you if that truly was your plan it worked, what I don’t understand is why someone who doesn’t confess Jesus is the lord would want me to become closer to him?
I was worried about you and your relationship with God and was shown why my own relationship needed work in it self. I think we agree on a lot of things and would probably get along well if we were to meet someday? Oh just so you know I do love you and I did pray for you like I said I would, so did several other people mainly the people in the praise band at my church. That may or may not mean anything to you I don’t know..



__________________

Christians, I am ashamed of you.

This is not a fight, this should not even be a debate.

What I should be seeing here is one or two believers honestly addressing the _specific_ questions of another rational adult.

Not going off into tangents. Not demanding "proof" when we all know that little exchange never ends. Not demeaning other beliefs, as either being "indoctrinated" and "book-based" _OR_ "misguided" and "godless". Believers follow a man they've met named Christ, not a book. Agnostics have a right to investigate and test every answer looking for what's true.

Let's see some civil and compassionate behavior on both sides here, friends.

Realist, I'm gonna give my best shot to answer your questions. Let me know on what specific points I'm making no sense. But it'd also help to know if anything I say does make sense. (Mature believers, let me know if I stray from what's true). I'll try to get back this forum often, but as a sophomore in college, I'm a little busy. But not too busy for some good talkin'.

So Realist, I'm gonna lay out right now what I've discovered is true, not to try and convince you, just so you know exactly where I'm coming from:

There is a God. He has a particular character, much like a person, but so much more than any person we know. He is like a Father, a Husband, and a King. Those analogies to what his character is like are very important, they have a lot to do with this topic. As a Father, God has an unconditional love for every person he's ever created. When he created everything, it was all good; we screwed it up by our choice, bringing bad stuff into us; God still wants us all to be put right again. He wants us all adopted into his family, though his love for us means he respects our choice, and will not kidnap us.

So, what does this have to do with nudie pix? Why such a stress on not fantasizing about girls?

I'll let you know now, this is my single biggest struggle. This morning I woke up and all I wanted to do was remember one of the many times I hooked up with an ex-g/f and masturbate over it. Why did I not do it? Why did I pray for strength to resist? Why is it such a big deal?

Look again at this character of God. He desires to have a relationship with each person that is _intense_. That is full of joy and pleasure, more than we have ever experienced on earth. And that's part of the problem. On Earth, we are separate from the unseen God, without the relationship he desires. How is he going to possibly communicate to us any hints as to what a relationship with him would be like?

That's why God created marriage. Marriage is the promise of two people to stay together their whole life. God promises to stay with believers forever. Married people put their complete trust in their partner. God wants us to turn to him for anything we _ever_ need. Married people have intimate emotional connections and communications. God wants to talk with us every day, and seeks an even deeper intimacy. Married people have incredible, blissful, amazing sex. Sex is a wonderful pleasure that was created to give the faintest _preview_ of what mind-blowing Joy is like in the direct presence of God. That's why God calls himself a Husband.

And here's where we come to the heart of the question.

Marriage is also about loyalty. Not straying to other partners. Why is this important to our relationship with God? Because, just as God uses marriage's steadfastness, trust, communication, and sex to teach us about himself, he also uses faithfulness. He wants us to know _how_ to remain faithful to One so that we can stay faithful to _him_.

In a marriage on earth, a husband can stray to another woman. But when you talk about a personal relationship with God, if you wander away from him, there is no "other person" to go to! In fact, there is nothingness. There is only lonliness. We can see hints of that on earth. One of the "relationships" I had two years ago, when I was an extremely immature believer, was based soley on physical attraction. She was hot, and I wanted her. But even when I had her, making out on her couch, hands going everywhere, I felt empty. I felt, "shouldn't I be enjoying this more?". The answer was no, because there was no true relationship there. God used that sin of mine to show me that, after death, if I am without a relationship with God, all I will be is empty.

But you already know the effect of true love relationship on physical pleasure. You know that sex with someone you don't love is much emptier than with someone you love. Why is that so?

God is trying to tell us something. God is trying to tell us that real joy realizes its full potential _only_ when it is within a relationship. Specificly one promise-based. A committed relationship. Loyal to _one_. Loyal to one wife, one husband. Loyal to Him. Only then is joy complete, unlacking.

So how do we learn this? How do our souls learn to be loyal to One person, when everything in our natural inclination says to get with as many hotties as possible? How does God tell us we need to learn this?

Through his law. God, like a King now, makes certain decrees: No fooling around before marriage. No fooling around with anyone besides your marriage partner. No fantasizing about fooling around with someone who's not your marriage partner.

Two external actions, one internal. They are all equally important. Why? They all affect the state of your soul, your mind. If your soul is to know what it means to be faithful, then thoughts are just as important as actions.

When your soul knows how to be faithful, it can be faithful, and enjoys the peace and love of being enraptured in God's embrace. If your soul doesn't know how to be faithful (i.e., if you have ever broken the above law), then you can't be faithful, the consequence being complete lonliness and emptiness apart from God after death. You see then, why knowing faithfulness is so important.

Obviously, the next question is, what do you do if you've borken the law? God knows I have, in thought and action. In fact, everyone has broken the law. Am I, or you, or anyone, without hope of being with God? The surprising answer is no! But that is a topic further along. Let's talk out the original topic first.

Though Realist, if you are interested in hearing how God is able to bring me and every other unfaithful person that has ever lived back into a true loving relationship with Himself, email me. It's an incredible story.

Jack Grimes
jgrime01@tufts.edu

[Chrysostom]

man... i wish i could rebuke you guys for like days and nights. Stop bickering with personal insults... i think Fuzz was right in telling Realist that he could edit posts, etc., and asking him not to curse. However, this has just gotten into a name-calling war. Please refrain from further attacks on another's character, and just stick to any actual debating. da_okum- good idea in starting a creationism thread, but i doubt that realist believes evolution. If he does, i stand corrected, and more power to ya'. If y'all would like to start a Creationism\Evolutionism thread, i would LOVE it because i have books upon books about it. Anyways, please everybody stop name-calling. Realist- good comeback on the spelling thing, man. Props to ya'.

john

[Fuzz]

Yes realist i can make people hate you, i can edit whatever you say and make them think that you said it, k? I'm sick of messin with you, i'm oficially quiting this conversation because it has now turned pointless, all you are wanting to do now is disagree and be a rather large pain. And yes you are more intelegent than me in some ways, i'll admit that, and the reason i didn't read your profile is because i really don't care about you enough to care your age...-Adam


*Oficially quits this now pointless thread* will moniter though...

[da_OKUM?]

Originally posted by Fuzz
Yes realist i can make people hate you, i can edit whatever you say and make them think that you said it, k? I'm sick of messin with you, i'm oficially quiting this conversation because it has now turned pointless, all you are wanting to do now is disagree and be a rather large pain. And yes you are more intelegent than me in some ways, i'll admit that, and the reason i didn't read your profile is because i really don't care about you enough to care your age...-Adam


*Oficially quits this now pointless thread* will moniter though...

HEY! Don't you think that what you typed is a little harsh? Absolutely nothing you or he (Realist) says or does will make me hate anyone, and certainly not him. He's close, I can feel it. But no matter what he said, if you don't care, than isn't that conditional love? Real love is deeper. It knows no limits, and does not work with condition. And right now, Realist is probably the one who needs love the most. Not conditional, Agape. Unconditional.

[Luke]

Originally posted by Fuzz
Yes realist i can make people hate you, i can edit whatever you say and make them think that you said it, k?

No, you can't--for two reasons.
- That would be bearing false witness against your neighbor.
- It would say "Last edited by Fuzz" at the bottom of the post.

[Luke]

Besides, no matter what he said or I thought he said, I still wouldn't hate him.

[realist999]

Nice christian attitude fuzz.

[Fuzz]

I'm sorry about that ya'll, it's just you are one of those people Realist that just crawls my skin! OH well, i'll be nice to you from now on, and yes LUke you are right... -Adam



I"m gonna try this agian, "Hello realist, name's Adam, how are you today?"

[da_OKUM?]

Thanks for that, Fuzz!

[da_OKUM?]

Or Adam Whichever one!

[Fuzz]

You are welcome, i relaly was acting like a brat here, sorry about that...-Adam

You can call me Adam! (BTW, i love your screen name!)

[RockinRonnie]

I'm obviously quite late in this discussion and will probably say things here that have already been said, but these are some truths I've learned about pornography and troubles I've had with sin like it. And these are by no means clinically proven ways of dealing with this either :P

No matter how much you pray, you are inevitably going to enter into a situation where you will be tempted by it. You can have extensive, meaningful Biblical knowledge and meaningful prayer time with God, you can still fall into this sin. But when it comes down to being right there in the face of temptation, you're always faced with the same two choices: look or don't look. How you respond in that situation really is often times unaffected by what you have done spiritually in the past. This may sound a little radical, I know. but what I've found, is the best way to ensure that you'll make the right decision, is to daily spend time in serious personally reading of scripture and prayer. I'm not talking about reading any old commentary or Bible study (Although it's better than nothing). It really needs to be heartfelt and honest

Of course there are ways to make it more difficult to see such images. There is the net nanny, as pointed out before. But they tend to block out more than you want them to (such as a good punk guitar tab site like www.punkhardcore.com). And furthermore, it's only a quick fix to an ongoing spiritual battle. It takes the discipline out of your own hands and puts it into a software program that you may or may not have in certain situations when you are being tempted. If your situation with this sin is fargone to the point where you need outside discipline though, that would be a very good option. It's kinda like drug rehab in a way. Helps you get out of it for a while, but you can't stay in the program forever. One day you'll have to confront the problem and choose.

And then we say, well, if only I had a beautiful wife to fulfill these desires, i wouldn't have a need for this. Of course then the reality check sets in when we realize that grown married men have just as many problems with porn as adolescent boys. Lust is not something you will ever truly escape. It will always be there to some varying degree. The idea behind defeating it is taking measures early on and comitting yourself daily to Christ.
One thing that helps is accountability. Unfortunately, in the Christian culture today, people who look at such things (and God forbid, enjoy it) are often regarded as, like you said "perverts". It's too bad really, because so many good godly men struggle with it. And as a result, many of these men are very ashamed and embarrassed about it and would rather have nobody find out. Somebody finding out and keeping you accountable for it is often times the very LAST thing we'd want. But it's really a crucial thing we need to get through this sin.

In closing, this kind of sin is very beatable, but it never seems that way. Just when you start feeling good about how long you've abstained from it, the very thought of it comes creeping in and you find yourself back at page one. Meaningful prayer, commitment to resist, and outside prayer and accountability are all proven methods for fighting this in my book. Just keep in mind that you can't do it all by yourself.

Ryan