Question for Calvinists.

DiscoDancenPete · 12-21-2003, 09:41 PM

First off let me say that I am NOT attacking Calvinisum. In fact, I think I agree with Calvinisum, I'm just trying to learn and I learn best by asking questions. So here it is: God loves man right? He didn't want man to chose sin (hell) right? If we don't have free will then how can we chose something contrary to what God wants? Thats not my real question though. This is my real question: So if man can chose sin(hell) why can't man chose God? Again, I'm not trying to attack anything, I'm just confused. Thanks in advance.

Than · 12-21-2003, 09:48 PM

Man doesn't choose on his own. Since we are all by nature, Totally Depraved, we are incapable of doing anything good on our own behalf (including choosing Salvation). God draws those He predestined (the elect), to Him.

brown07 · 12-21-2003, 09:51 PM

1) Please delete the other 2 threads.

2) It's spelled Calvinism.

3) The reason that we don't have free will isn't because God takes it from us - it's because we surrender our free will and choose to be enslaved to sin.

4) The reason that man can not choose God is that, once they have chosen sin, they are enslaved to their sinful nature and can not do anything but respond to their sinful nature, unless God chooses to set them free from that sinful nature.

**Ted Logan** · 12-21-2003, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brown07

1) Please delete the other 2 threads.

Taken care of.

Pete, in the future, when you realize that you've posted something more than once, please delete the extra copies. You can do this by clicking on "edit" at the bottom of your post, and then clicking "delete".

Quote:

4) The reason that man can not choose God is that, once they have chosen sin, they are enslaved to their sinful nature and can not do anything but respond to their sinful nature, unless God chooses to set them free from that sinful nature.

And all of us, by virtue of the fact that we are humans, are born into slavery to sin and thus, none of us on our own can choose God.

Luke · 12-21-2003, 11:32 PM

Users cannot delete threads, even if they started them. Therefore, Pete couldn't have deleted them.

Grace & Peace
Luke

psalm63adam · 12-21-2003, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiscoDancenPete

So if man can chose sin(hell) why can't man chose God?

Man doesn't choose hell; God predestines them there for his pleasure.

Travis · 12-22-2003, 12:04 AM

You assume that those two are mutually exclusive, Adam.

ReformedYokel · 12-22-2003, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scum.™

Man doesn't choose hell; God predestines them there for his pleasure.

Doesn't God take no pleasure in that? Or maybe we're not using the Bible...

**Ted Logan** · 12-22-2003, 12:23 AM

The Bible's not welcome here, nonheathen

Luke, I forgot users couldn't delete

SmileAndFollow · 12-22-2003, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron Adams

And all of us, by virtue of the fact that we are humans, are born into slavery to sin and thus, none of us on our own can choose God.

Cant people live good "moral" lives and not choose God? So why do they live basically good lives if they were predestined to sin?

jdironfist · 12-22-2003, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmileAndFollow

Cant people live good "moral" lives and not choose God? So why do they live basically good lives if they were predestined to sin?

Depends on your definition of "good, moral lives." A truly perfect person (Jesus) does everything for the glory of God the Father. Now, take people like Mormons, who normally live very morally based on this world's standards, and compare them to how Jesus lived. The difference is that while Jesus worked for only God's glory, Mormons work in order to attain the "celestial glory" and to inherit their own little universes in which they can be God. Being totally depraved means that you can't do anything by yourself that is inherently good. Through God's grace, however, which is given in differing amounts to every man, including the damned (the fact that they're even alive is merciful), man can do something strictly for God's glory.