The 12 Apostles and Revelation

Mike Graham · 12-10-2003, 06:56 PM

Revelation 21:14, NASB
And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

Who are the 12th? Is is Matthias? Paul? I would think not Judas...

Do both Matthias and Paul get spots, and Andew not, since let's face it, no one cares about Andrew?

Or does anyone know?

Andrei · 12-10-2003, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gethedge

Do both Matthias and Paul get spots, and Andew not, since let's face it, no one cares about Andrew?

I care about Andrew

Sorry...just had to say that.

Mike Graham · 12-10-2003, 07:12 PM

Shut up, Andy.

Bryan · 12-10-2003, 07:28 PM

my original instinct is to say Matthius and not paul, since Paul was #13. But i really can't support anything I just said. Like I said, it's my instinct.

Ryan Akers · 12-10-2003, 10:51 PM

Personally I don't know of course

Some of the smart scholars I know say they are unsure also. He brought out a good point saying when he gets to heaven, his first question won't have to be who is the 12th apostle because he can just read it on the gate.

I haven't done much studying into this, but it is a good question.

psalm63adam · 12-11-2003, 12:51 AM

I would say Matthias - although we don't have any information about him past Acts 1, he was Judas' replacement and seemed to be approved by God to be that replacement.

Tup · 12-11-2003, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scum.™

I would say Matthias - although we don't have any information about him past Acts 1, he was Judas' replacement and seemed to be approved by God to be that replacement.

I would say not matthias because we do not know if he was chosen by God or not. My basic impressions was that the eleven drew straws or rolled dice or cast votes (lots) and that decided between matthias and the other guy, which would lead me to believe that matthias was chosen by men, not God. We know that paul was Chosen by God, and Judas was chosen by God, and there is no evidence that judas went to hell, so...

psalm63adam · 12-11-2003, 05:15 PM

Casting lots was used throughout Scripture as an appropriate way of finding out what God wanted or decided.

Leviticus 16:6-10
6 "Aaron is to offer the bull for his own sin offering to make atonement for himself and his household. 7 Then he is to take the two goats and present them before the LORD at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting. 8 He is to cast lots for the two goats-one lot for the LORD and the other for the scapegoat. [1] 9 Aaron shall bring the goat whose lot falls to the LORD and sacrifice it for a sin offering. 10 But the goat chosen by lot as the scapegoat shall be presented alive before the LORD to be used for making atonement by sending it into the desert as a scapegoat.

Joshua 18:5-7
5 You are to divide the land into seven parts. Judah is to remain in its territory on the south and the house of Joseph in its territory on the north. 6 After you have written descriptions of the seven parts of the land, bring them here to me and I will cast lots for you in the presence of the LORD our God. 7 The Levites, however, do not get a portion among you, because the priestly service of the LORD is their inheritance. And Gad, Reuben and the half-tribe of Manasseh have already received their inheritance on the east side of the Jordan. Moses the servant of the LORD gave it to them."

Nehemiah 10:33-35
33 for the bread set out on the table; for the regular grain offerings and burnt offerings; for the offerings on the Sabbaths, New Moon festivals and appointed feasts; for the holy offerings; for sin offerings to make atonement for Israel; and for all the duties of the house of our God.
34 "We-the priests, the Levites and the people-have cast lots to determine when each of our families is to bring to the house of our God at set times each year a contribution of wood to burn on the altar of the LORD our God, as it is written in the Law.
35 "We also assume responsibility for bringing to the house of the LORD each year the firstfruits of our crops and of every fruit tree.

Jonah 1:6-8
6 The captain went to him and said, "How can you sleep? Get up and call on your god! Maybe he will take notice of us, and we will not perish."
7 Then the sailors said to each other, "Come, let us cast lots to find out who is responsible for this calamity." They cast lots and the lot fell on Jonah.
8 So they asked him, "Tell us, who is responsible for making all this trouble for us? What do you do? Where do you come from? What is your country? From what people are you?"

just for starters. Also a case in point is 1 Samuel 14 when Saul cast lots to find out who was the troublemaker and found out his own son Jonathan was the one.