Singing and musical direction leading worship from guitar

ryanspeer · 12-06-2003, 01:14 PM

For those of you who lead worship vocally and musically from a guitar, how have you devised ways of leading in a musical sense (direction re: transitions, bridges, solos, verse-chorus, chorus-verse, verse 1, verse 2, etc.) while continuing to play? In my keyboard background, it's much more simplified because I can still play melody/chords with my right hand while directing with the left hand, but with guitar, it's obviously not that easy.

Our keyboardist saw Matt Redman in a Worship Together conference a while back and noticed that he directs worship (at least this is what she says) with foot/leg signals such as bending one leg at the knee (lifting foot off the ground) to signal going back into the verse, etc.

I've devised a somewhat simplistic, yet still fairly limiting way to do the same.
1) Continue into the chorus, or repeat the chorus: bend my right leg at the knee and tap the tempo out with my toe on the ground behind me
2) Repeat verse, or transition from chorus/bridge into the verse: bend right leg at the knee (roughly 90 degree angle) and hold it there for a couple of seconds
3) Go into the bridge: slide my right leg back so that only the toes contact the ground (vs. the roughly 90 degree bend or tapping the tempo).
4) End song/bring to a conclusion: ball right hand into a loose fist and put it quickly behind me or at the very least try to turn somewhat and give the drummer the cue that we're ending.

I don't use a headset mic because I don't want to look anything like Brittney Spears (despite my last name), some member of a boy band, or Garth Brooks, and so I'm kind of stuck in front of a boom stand. This limits my ability to turn around to look at certain musicians as a cue for a solo or instrumental segment.

What's above is about the best that I've been able to work out with the rest of the group as of yet due to our very confined stage area and the inability of certain musicians in parts of the stage to see ALL signs.

What do you all do?

Jay Tea · 12-06-2003, 01:56 PM

Everybody knows ahead of time what we're going to do. That's good, because there's not a whole lot of room for visual contact, necessarily. There's also not necessarily one "leader" to make those decisions. If there were, it'd be the pianist, most likely, and she's the hardest one to see.

bobthecockroach · 12-06-2003, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Tea

Everybody knows ahead of time what we're going to do.

That's the way to go.

And play with each other enough that you get a feel for each other.

georgeo · 12-06-2003, 02:34 PM

i suto try to do stuff like that, but i've found its really not neccessary for my situation.
in the worship ministry i serve on now, we practice enough that we have a general idea as to the pattern each song will take, and then we just follow the lead of one of the guitarist/vocalists (me or another guy)
we can follow the lead just by listening to each other, and hearing if its building or decaying, and guessing where it will go. we rarely mess up that way.

Our group knows each other really well, even though we've only been together as the group we are now for a few months. God's just cool like that.

also, since we have multiple vocalists, whoever is the leader of the day can stop singing and whisper instructions if there is anything different that needs to happen.

God bless,
David

Tony · 12-06-2003, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Tea

Everybody knows ahead of time what we're going to do. That's good, because there's not a whole lot of room for visual contact, necessarily. There's also not necessarily one "leader" to make those decisions. If there were, it'd be the pianist, most likely, and she's the hardest one to see.

This is the way we work as well.

For tempo changes, I do sometimes turn and look at the band.

agrimes87 · 12-06-2003, 09:29 PM

the way our stage is set up makes a big difference. it's kind of hard to describe, but the drummer is right up front, not very far away from me (as crazy as that may seem, it works very well. lol). anyway, this makes it very easy for myself and the drummer to communicate. all i have to do is turn my head slightly and i'm looking right at him.

but yeah the best way to do it i think is to just develop a "feel" for each other. after practicing together for so long you get to know each other's playing styles. you can predict what everyone in the band will do and when. and that is VERY useful. it makes leading MUCH easier.

but as i was saying before, our stage setup makes it easy for us, because i can communicate so easily with the drummer. i tend to make the drummer a bigger part of the sound for this reason, and that works out very well (as opposed to other situations where lead guitar or bass may be the main sound other than the leader).

what i'm trying to say is that you have to make the best of the advantages and disadavantages of your own individual situation. i can communicate with the drummer very easily, but when it comes to lead guitar, it's very difficult. he's located directly behind me. so he learns to follow myself and the drummer by ear....

every situation is different....

JonnyBoy · 12-06-2003, 09:31 PM

we practice each song so much that we could play them in our sleep!

nah, its not that bad but we know them well. also one thing I have been trying for the past few services is trying to arrage it so if I stop playing or singing it will not mess things up. that way I can stop and sing/play just accents or give direction to a lagging band memeber or anything else. it would be a nice freedom to attain but it can be hard when people are relying on you for timing or something.
Jonny

agrimes87 · 12-07-2003, 01:05 PM

that's a really good idea. it's one of the biggest problems i have. i can't stop playing or singing. it becomes a really big distraction. how would you achieve that kind of freedom?

ryanspeer · 12-07-2003, 01:10 PM

I definitely hear what you're all saying about getting a feel for each other and the worship leader's leading style. Although I do understand that, I really don't understand (or at least agree with) the idea of following the same pattern in singing a song. I've really grown to DIS-like the "verse1, chorus, verse2, chorus, verse1, chorus, chorus, end" pattern. Our former worship leader sang almost each and every song EXACTLY as she originally heard it on a CD. In my opinion, it really takes away from the freedom of making any individual song available to the Holy Spirit for HIS leading. Maybe we're supposed to dwell on the chorus for a while? Maybe a instrumental part? Maybe there's a concept in the verse that we need to sing and re-sing until we "get" it?

To possibly help that make a little more sense, back when I was in High School, we used to sing a certain song in youth group the exact same way each and every time. Suddenly one evening, the worship leader actually repeated the chorus (imagine that!). It took me and LOTS of us by surprise and quite honestly, almost slapped me upside the head with the actual WORDS in the chorus. Instead of being words that fit in with the music like before, they suddenly took on a new meaning simply because we sang the song "differently".

In that respect, I try my absolute HARDEST NOT to follow a the same old "pattern" as a CD or something similar.

Due to that, I feel there is a big need to having a way to direct the rest of the band if I feel that we need to repeat the bridge a few more times (ala, Tim Hughes': "Here I am to Worship"), sing all three verses concurrenetly for a while from Chris Tomlin's "Forever", etc. Definitely there's a "familiarity" with other team members that gets built up. That's a really good point that I hadn't really thought of when I started this thread.

For instance, our bassist (incredible bassist, too!) and I have played in worship teams for the last 3 or 4 years. He can simply read my body language and basically tell where we're going. The drummer and (oddly enough, share the same name "Ryan" as does our backup bassist and the guy who used to play percussion - it was almost as if being named "Ryan" was a requirement for being on the team!

) I are learning this more and more, but our two electric guitarists and the keyboardist are new this year. Due to that, we have a small road ahead of us. That's why I kind of have to direct with my "foot" for now...

Anybody else have ways that they lead the rest of their respective worship teams?

Jay Tea · 12-07-2003, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryanspeer

Although I do understand that, I really don't understand (or at least agree with) the idea of following the same pattern in singing a song.

Well, we don't necessarily do it the same way every time. Just the same as we did it in practice. We also don't necessarily do it like it's done on a CD.

Quote:

I've really grown to DIS-like the "verse1, chorus, verse2, chorus, verse1, chorus, chorus, end" pattern.

Me too. I feel like we repeat things in modern songs, just because that's what you do with modern songs. Either that, or they feel too short and wimpy, and repeating them is the only way to make them seem substantial. I have a feeling that's why they repeat things on CD recordings. 45 second songs probably wouldn't do real great on the radio.

Quote:

In my opinion, it really takes away from the freedom of making any individual song available to the Holy Spirit for HIS leading. Maybe we're supposed to dwell on the chorus for a while? Maybe a instrumental part? Maybe there's a concept in the verse that we need to sing and re-sing until we "get" it?

The approach to this that I take is that the Holy Spirit isn't going to suddenly be surprised by what's going on in the service and change His mind. We approach planning with prayer, and trust that if the Holy Spirit wants to work through the way we play a song, He will be faithful to guide us to what that way is. Further, doing it as a group ahead of time gives us some accountability--it's harder for one person to think they're "following the Spirit" and run off doing their own thing.

JonnyBoy · 12-07-2003, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agrimes87

that's a really good idea. it's one of the biggest problems i have. i can't stop playing or singing. it becomes a really big distraction. how would you achieve that kind of freedom?

it depends on the size of your band. if you have a backup guitarest or keyboardest you can let them lead the song (musically) and then make sure your singers are confident enough to lead in singing, then your free to do whatever. . . its hard with my group cause the keyboardest, backup guitarest, and two singers are low-end intermediat so when I have them play the lead insturment things can get messed up easiely

usually what happens is the song slows down and everybody plays really quietly! you just have to practice a lot and make sure there wouln't be any surprises during the worship service.
Jonny

Rich* · 12-08-2003, 10:24 AM

my band usually sets up in a kinda semi-circle going Keys - Singer - Me(guitar+lead vox) - drums - bass - guitar(when he is there)
i make sure i can have eye contact with drummer and keys player.

we have a system of signals which is basically:
if i look at them and point my guitar neck down and look at the floor then we get quieter.
if i look at them and point my guitar neck up a bit and look up we get louder.
if we get to the end of a bridge bit and i shake my head then we repeat that section.
if i nod my head we continue into the next section.
if i look at the drummer and stamp my foot (quietly!) we drop to just drums+bass.
other than that we play together a lot so can kinda read each other.

is different for everyone I guess.
when i am playing with my church music group it is different cos we are set up differently etc.

God Bless, Snappy

Martavius · 12-10-2003, 11:36 AM

Interesting topic. I guess you would say that I am the "leader" of our praise team, and I am also the only guitarist and male lead vocal. My situation is simplified, in that our team only consists of two members - myself and a female vocalist, so I don't have to direct other instrumentalists. We usually have practiced enough so that we have a pretty good feel for what we are going to do with a song each time.

I've never really given much thought to "how" I communicate with Jan while we are in the middle of a song until now. Usually, eye contact and head gestures do pretty well. I will usually nod my head if we are going to repeat a section, or (novel idea) just say something to the effect of "once more" in between. She can also tell my intentions by the tempo/volume of my playing.

I probably will have to give more thought to this in the coming months, as the pianist that plays our hymns may be joining us for praise as well.

nealb · 12-10-2003, 05:26 PM

I'm predominantly a keyboard player, but occasionally lead from guitar and also find that "direction" issue a bit of a problem. One thing i've started to do a little bit more are vocal ad-libs for direction. Initially I was quite apprehensive about it, because it does sometimes seem a bit "dramatic" and definately requires confidence. Also you have to know that when you're singing over the top of a line that the rest of the band keeps it goin - that the backing vocalists still continue with that last line of the chorus or verse. I do think however that you do have to be consious that this kind of thing could become a distration to ppl and also to make sure that you don't go over the top with it.
it is usefull occaionally tho.!

hope thats remotely helpfull..!

nate95366 · 12-12-2003, 01:24 PM

Generally, we work out what we plan to do at practice. However, I am somewhat random as a person, and I have helped my other musicians and singers to be comfortable with a small amount of randomness, such that they will follow me IF I give a sing-song vocal "cue" during the song (i.e. lead everybody where we're going next with just 2 words or so, preferably sung and not spoken...) or I give a signal with my right (strumming, picking) hand that has meaning decided upon in practice..

That's what I do, and it works quite well for my band.

nate