[CheshireCat]

Okay, I stand corrected.

Chesh

[Al Webber]

I waded through this entire thread and have seen very little on amps. While a good guitar is important a good amp is vital. I could play live with my brother-in-law's Squier through a good amp. I could not play live with my US Fender through a nasty cheap 10 Watt practice combo!

Al

[CheshireCat]

Originally Posted by Al Webber

I waded through this entire thread and have seen very little on amps. While a good guitar is important a good amp is vital. I could play live with my brother-in-law's Squier through a good amp. I could not play live with my US Fender through a nasty cheap 10 Watt practice combo!

Al

You're point?

(No offense, but I couldn't tell if you had intended any sarcasm. The word "waded" wasn't very charitable.)

Understand, it's all the same thing. Guitars, Basses, Amps, whatever, it's all about researching what works and will give you the biggest bang for the buck, and what doesn't.

Now, granted, I didn't mention amps in the initial post, but then, all the points apply to amps, and that's rarely what I hear all the time. Most of the time, it's newbies being told to try out all the guitars in their price range and go with the one they like the best, yadda yadda yadda.

You bring up a good point, but all the same prinicples still apply.

What would you offer as advice on that?

Chesh

[Al Webber]

Sorry, I didn't mean to cause any offence but it is a long thread and does digress somewhat from the original topic in some places.

If you have the money to buy more than the basic $200 Stratpack type thing then I would go for the more basic guitar and put the extra money into an amp thats big enough to play along with a drummer and play small gigs live. Minimum 30 Watts (preferably 50 to 60 Watts) solid state Marshall, Peavey, Fender type thing - preferably with a 12 inch speaker. Even in the bedroom a cheaper guitar will sound better through this than a good guitar though a cheap practice amp with a 6 inch speaker, and for playing live with other musicians its essential to have the better amp.

On buying guitars, I think by far the best way is to find an experienced guitarist to take with you. With the cheaper guitars you can get a relatively good one but one reason they are cheap is the quality control (or lack of it). For the one decent one there will be several bad ones. A beginner will not be able to tell the difference between the two.

Failing that then try to find a good shop with knowledgable staff. Preferably a smaller local one where you can build up a relationship with them. You may pay slightly more but the service you get will make up for that. Also, as they get to know you they will start to do deals for you.

Al

[CheshireCat]

Good stuff. Keep it coming.

Chesh

[Al Webber]

Something else I just thought of - I would encourage beginners to buy a Telecaster style guitar. Cheap Strat style trems are awful. They will rob sustain and they will give problems with tuning stability. Regarding humbuckers, I have never yet heard a cheap guitar with cheap humbuckers that sounds good.

Also, a simple guitar like a Tele will encourage a beginner to learn to play properly rather than just fiddle with the trem etc.

Al

[CheshireCat]

Originally Posted by Al Webber

Something else I just thought of - I would encourage beginners to buy a Telecaster style guitar. Cheap Strat style trems are awful. They will rob sustain and they will give problems with tuning stability. Regarding humbuckers, I have never yet heard a cheap guitar with cheap humbuckers that sounds good.

Also, a simple guitar like a Tele will encourage a beginner to learn to play properly rather than just fiddle with the trem etc.

Al

Hmmmmmmmm . . . Tele, eh? . . . hmmmmmmm . . . never thought of it that way. Interesting idea. Yeah, I'm real big on Strats, just because they are the ultimate hotrodding guitar. But, then again, a Tele will work as well.

BTW, if anyone does get a cheap Strat, Al makes a good point. I would lock down the Trem until you are ready to use it.

Also, interesting point about the 'buckers. Good point.

Chesh

[Major Tom]

Something else I just thought of - I would encourage beginners to buy a Telecaster style guitar. Cheap Strat style trems are awful. They will rob sustain and they will give problems with tuning stability. Regarding humbuckers, I have never yet heard a cheap guitar with cheap humbuckers that sounds good.

I would have to agree with you. Teles are pretty awesome guitars in their own right anyway.

[Spammy]

On the subjects of amps I would have to make a couple suggestions.

If at all possible see if the store will let you play your guitar through the amps to try them out. Not sure if the big stores will do this, but the little ones out here in SD don't mind.

And if your in the store looking for a guitar, try it with a bunch of different amps. Most stores will give you a deal if you buy both.

I also suggest 30+ watts 10"+ speaker if possible...

As for guitars I fit into the buying inexpensive guitars that I like and then overhauling the electronics as needed. I have a strat-copy that I have that I've done this too..loved the neck too much to part with it, and now it sounds great with the new electronics...

Sorry kinda late so no more posting

[GMartin2R]

Originally Posted by Al Webber

Also, a simple guitar like a Tele will encourage a beginner to learn to play properly rather than just fiddle with the trem etc.

Al

hmm never thought aobut that. but then again i didnt have to worry aobut that. when i bought my first electric guitar (a peavey predator) it didnt come with a whammy bar. which looking back was just fine with me because i played acoustic first so in essence i had to learn a different playing style for electric rhythm which isnt always fully open chords. my current guitar has a vintage style whammy i guess(the 6 set screw) and it is what i've learned my stuff on. next step a floating trem... e.g FR or EP

I waded through this entire thread and have seen very little on amps.

just to address this statement for a sec... thsi is the gutiar forum. we've got a forum for amps which if this thread was in there it would probably be more devoted to amps. just thought i'd make note of that.

[Rainer.]

Originally Posted by CheshireCat

BTW, if anyone does get a cheap Strat, Al makes a good point. I would lock down the Trem until you are ready to use it.

Good point... Out of all the people I know that has a trem on their guitars, I am the only one that ever regularly uses it, even though all the guitars I own are fixed bridges. I'm still looking for that Les Paul floyd rose system...

Another point on trems: If you're going to get a guitar with a trem, check if it throws the tuning off too much. I my experience, Squiers seem to have some of the worst trem systems. On the lower end, Yamahas tend to have better (although still not that great) trem systems.

Originally Posted by Al Webber

Regarding humbuckers, I have never yet heard a cheap guitar with cheap humbuckers that sounds good.

But, in general, cheap guitars' pickups tend to suck, single-coil or humbucking.

just to address this statement for a sec... thsi is the gutiar forum. we've got a forum for amps which if this thread was in there it would probably be more devoted to amps. just thought i'd make note of that.

Anyone want to create a new thread there?

[thesteve]

If you're going to get a guitar with a trem, check if it throws the tuning off too much.

the vibrato on my Jagstang is horrible...just tapping it will take the guitar like a 1/4 step out of tune...If you actually abused it for a crazy measure or two, and you'll be over a half-step out of tune...and there's no hipshot tremsetter for it yet!.

[Rainer.]

How is it that Fender, practically the father of the trem system, has such crappy trems?

[thesteve]

no idea...i just know that the floating vibrato is horrible. i need to go to jag-stang.com sometime and see what they recommend to take care of it (probably will say, "stop-bar tailpiece").

[CheshireCat]

Originally Posted by rainer123

How is it that Fender, practically the father of the trem system, has such crappy trems?

Ever heard of cost-cutting?

Chesh