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Unread 11-19-2003, 12:12 PM   #46
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I mean no offense in the least and am certainly not accusing you of the example I'm about to use, but with my Taylor for instance, the list price on it was $3400. I paid $2400. Now, that doesn't mean I suddenly have a $3400 guitar. It's only worth what I can re-sell it for. Currently, that'd be somewhere around $1600 give or take a bit. I'm basically just curious what you did to the guitar, what it's made of, how you come up with the $$ value, etc.
Also, another important point (and, btw, no offense taken ). I'm not in the business of reselling my guitars. I don't reckon value by what I can sell it for, but rather, what it would cost to replace it, buy one of comparable quality and feature set, and estimated opportunity costs in choosing it over another. To my way of thinking, that's the truest value analysis, not what I would hope to get for it on ebay or on consignment at GC, if they even do that anymore.

The irony is, you can actually get more guitar for your money by doing upgrades than buying one new, stock, and standard.

One anomaly to this is probably the Roland Ready Strat. Roland probably worked a cushie deal with Fender because they want to peddle as much of their MIDI converters as possible. They can virtually give away the GK-2 pickup, because the real money will be made on all their other GI-33's and V-8's. Kind of like free cable installation. Once you have that hook-up, and get hooked on HBO and Showtime, you won't want to give it up. And I notice that Fishman has a Powerbridge on some Fender Tele's.

Well, for another $550, you can get both MIDI and piezo-acoustic. That's GraphTech's GHOST Modular Pickup System. That's almost like getting a whole acoustic guitar (tho not the same feel, I know) and a whole orchestra in your guitar, for less than the price of a "nice" guitar.

Using the above example, $350 for a MIM Strat, $400 for a full EMG active system with 3-band EQ, and $550 for MIDI and piezo-acoustic, comes out to $1300. Add some locking tuners for about $60, and that comes out to $1360. That's $350 to $600 under the closest comparable Brian Moore Guitar, and BMG's don't have any EQing, even tho they have Duncans, which are nice. And that's BM's i2000 series. If you are looking at their i1000 series, that's their cheap/stock line, and they have none of the frills with that series. You could just add the GT GHOST system to a MIM Strat, and still come in under their MIDI outfitted i1000 series.

Anyway, that's just one possible scenario. And you can be certain that Fender will not touch anything like this with one of their "Standard", "Deluxe", "Classic", "Whatever" strats. Nor Gibson for that matter. And if you were to have Fender's "Custom Shop" do it for you, that would probably cost you an arm and a leg.

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Unread 11-20-2003, 02:48 PM   #47
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IMO you have give a guitar it's value based on what it would take you to replace it, prefferably by a custom shop if you've modifyed things.

You have to look at what a different company would charge for the same guitar with all the man hours you put into it. In wich case i consider my ibanez about a $800 dollor guitar, even though you can buy one for $250 and do all the mods under $300. If still loved the baby, put my time into it. And perfecting thngs like the pickup hight, action, intonation. These are things that make high quality guitars. Companies like fender, gibson, bc rich, fernades, ibanez ect. don't put into thier cheep guitars. In many cases thier cheep and expensice guitars only differ in hardware (some cases) and how much time is spent on it. Granted the harware might cost more, but they charge more than just the parts for it.

Just got into GC some time and look for 2 identaical guitars with different prices. Made by the same company. Find the little differences. Try and find ones with the same bridge set up. And then find all the little things about them that makes them unique from eathother. This is the price difference. It would probly cost you less yo by the cheep one and make it better than the more expensive one. This is somnething I always look at with guitars. Because I'd rather make it better on my own because then it's closer to what i want, not what some company want to sell me.

Something noobs need to learn is that there are guitars worth buying just because they have a god base to work on.

Another thing they can look out for that i don't know if we've mentioned is through body necks. This is a good indication of a well build guitar. Much similar to a solic top acoustic. It's just a sign of care of quality.
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Unread 11-24-2003, 05:44 PM   #48
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Given the circumstances, I would say that "go find what you want" could be a potential problem. However, considering the alternatives, it makes the most sense. Why limit yourself to what other people tell you to get? I don't really agree.

Besides, if a beginner can't tell the difference between two guitars, how does it put him at a disadvantage? If he doesn't notice a difference in sound, then why bother him with searching up and down for a guitar that he can't tell the difference between? Most beginners just want something to start with, and I can say most don't have the patience or will to go through an extensive search for a guitar.
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Unread 11-25-2003, 12:26 AM   #49
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Given the circumstances, I would say that "go find what you want" could be a potential problem. However, considering the alternatives, it makes the most sense. Why limit yourself to what other people tell you to get? I don't really agree.

Besides, if a beginner can't tell the difference between two guitars, how does it put him at a disadvantage? If he doesn't notice a difference in sound, then why bother him with searching up and down for a guitar that he can't tell the difference between? Most beginners just want something to start with, and I can say most don't have the patience or will to go through an extensive search for a guitar.
Good questions. Answer? For all the reasons we covered.

Quote:
Besides, if a beginner can't tell the difference between two guitars, how does it put him at a disadvantage?
As pointed out on here, Squiers, for instance, are majorly problematic. For $30 to $100 more, a newbie can get a substantially better guitar, i.e. the Fender MIM Strat.

Quote:
I can say most don't have the patience or will to go through an extensive search for a guitar.
Well, that's not going to produce good results, and if they are not willing to delay gratification, they will probably suffer for it. I write these posts with the idea that my intended audience is willing to research and make a good decision. If some kid wants to go blow $100 because he's impatient and it's burning a hole in his pocket, there's not a lot I can do for him.

But looking at all the posts from all the here kids asking these questions leads me to believe that they do care, and can hold off long enough to get some kind of useful answer.

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Why limit yourself to what other people tell you to get?
Who's limiting who?

Quote:
However, considering the alternatives, it makes the most sense.
What alternatives?

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Unread 11-28-2003, 06:28 PM   #50
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The alternatives? Well, what alternatives do you offer to finding something you like for yourself? For the most part, this alternative seems to be when people tell others what exact model that they should get. For a person (especially a beginner) who is looking for this kind of advice, it psycologically obligates them to a particular guitar based on peer evaluation. This can be either a bad or a good thing. In theory, the person is not limited in their choices, it is just that a lot of people do not fulfill the extent of their freedom when shopping for a guitar because they are focused on a few specific guitars. Now, the alternative that I offer is that an experienced guitarist shop with the potential buyer, so there is a compromise between personal decision and peer input. With beginners, either extreme can be asking for trouble down the road when the qualities of the guitar will become fully appreciated.
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Unread 12-05-2003, 10:30 AM   #51
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I argee it is crap advice. I have been playing guitar for 2-3 months (i'm taught myself) what i did was get I price range £150-220 looked on ther internet and found a guitar that looked right with a humbucker. showed it to my-tele-playing-mate he said it was alright and said that i should get it, however going to one local shop did not have it and the other was £60 more expensive! I am perfectly happy with it and am now able to imprees mates but had i have taken that advice I would end up with a crap piece of wood like my thick mate did his guitar cost £100+ more than mine did but his has a encore or a vintge and I have a aria!
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Unread 12-05-2003, 10:53 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by kingstog
I argee it is crap advice. I have been playing guitar for 2-3 months (i'm taught myself) what i did was get I price range £150-220 looked on ther internet and found a guitar that looked right with a humbucker. showed it to my-tele-playing-mate he said it was alright and said that i should get it, however going to one local shop did not have it and the other was £60 more expensive! I am perfectly happy with it and am now able to imprees mates but had i have taken that advice I would end up with a crap piece of wood like my thick mate did his guitar cost £100+ more than mine did but his has a encore or a vintge and I have a aria!
Too funny! And too true!!



Chesh
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Unread 12-05-2003, 10:58 AM   #53
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mmm...aria...i met this guy with an older Aria Lab guitar. it was a flamed maple top (sorta PRS looking) deal with dual dimarzios and phase switch and stuff. by respect for ARia (not knowing much about them personally) went up ALOt after seeing what they were capable of, and then HEARING it...holy smokes.
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Unread 12-06-2003, 10:10 AM   #54
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My Advice

I would suggest looking at some of the better squier guitars or an epiphone.
but try to avoid getting a "strat pak" they aren't that nice and the "amps" that they come with are a joke.epiphones are quite nice,in fact many are better than some of the lower line gibsons(such as the melody maker)
I have a fender strat but i still like those epi's
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Unread 12-06-2003, 10:14 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by weirdo
I would suggest looking at some of the better squier guitars or an epiphone.
but try to avoid getting a "strat pak" they aren't that nice and the "amps" that they come with are a joke.epiphones are quite nice,in fact many are better than some of the lower line gibsons(such as the melody maker)
But you can get a lot more guitar for your money if you look around more. There is a danger involved in telling someone exactly what they should buy...
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Unread 12-08-2003, 10:26 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CheshireCat
Too funny! And too true!!



Chesh


And my 20watt aria amp(with reverb) cost the same as some other 10watt amps i saw with reverb
Providing u lok you can find alsorts of deals including free posting!
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Unread 12-15-2003, 10:50 PM   #57
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Okay, back to the mission at hand: coming up with guitar selection criteria that works.

Any ideas? I have some, but I want you all to ring in first.

Chesh
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Unread 12-16-2003, 04:59 PM   #58
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So what should be the very first step to buying a guitar?

(except the obvious: decide that you want to buy a guitar...)

Or maybe we should first compile a list of things someone should know before they go out to buy a guitar.
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Unread 12-16-2003, 05:11 PM   #59
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Actually, I am a newbie, having only been playing for almost 2 years... I started on some no name guitar made in Mexico that my Grandfather got for ten dollars. I put some decent strings on it and all of a sudden it sounded alright... at the time I trusted a couple of friends who played to help me out... I bought my first real Acoustic/Electric guitar when I went to a local guitar shop my grandparents recommended (they work with the churches a lot, and my grandparents are in the music ministry, having made tapes and CDs and traveled extensively). I went with my mother and a 200 dollar cap, and almost came away with a little Jay Turner thinline acoustic-electric... except that even I, with 3-4 months experience at the time, could hear that it sounded like a box with strings rather than a finely tuned instrument. That is when I saw the Washburn (their old D10-SCE's) priced at 500 bucks...of course that wasn't the real price, and they named their price at 300 bucks... my mom heard me play it and decided to get it for me... since then, I had trouble with the electronics in that guitar, but the sound just got better... in part because I got better... I played to that guitar's specific sound, and learned to get the effect I wanted from it, from making a note echo forever to different time sig's. Then two sundays ago I ran over it. I was crushed. I wanted to quit. But the church gave me 290 bucks to go and buy a new one from the same place...

Now here is what is different...

it now has Maple instead of Rosewood around the guitar, is what I was told...
the pickup now has a notch button, and an "Equis crystal" equalizer...

I know they are supposed to get better with age, but still, I feel I went wrong buying the same guitar again, because it is not as comfortable as the old one was, so I might as well have gone to guitar center...

So tell me, what did I do wrong, what did I do right, and did I pay too much for that guitar? It is a Washburn D10-SCE cutaway full bodied acoustic-electric with the equis crystal eq, and it was "marked" at 499.99.
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Unread 12-17-2003, 12:35 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by CheshireCat
Also, another important point (and, btw, no offense taken ). I'm not in the business of reselling my guitars. I don't reckon value by what I can sell it for, but rather, what it would cost to replace it, buy one of comparable quality and feature set, and estimated opportunity costs in choosing it over another. To my way of thinking, that's the truest value analysis, not what I would hope to get for it on ebay or on consignment at GC, if they even do that anymore.
I see what you're saying and both agree and disagree (a bit) with you in terms of valuation of a guitar. I don't think I necessarily agree (although there may be some exceptions?) that the cost of each individual part of a guitar added together equals the value of the instrument (or any item) in and of itself. For instance, my wife used to have a 1987 Honda Prelude Si. It sold for $2000 used last year. Now, if I were to part it all out and sell the engine, seats, body panels, wheels, drivetrain, etc., all separately, I'd be able to get well over $5K or even $6K for it all. It doesn't mean that that Prelude was suddenly worth $6K, but rather what it'd sell for as a whole package. Take a mountain bike. I used to be the biggest mountain bike freak you've ever seen. I ate and breathed biking, pouring over magazines, reading specs on every part known to man, etc., and over time purchased a fancy aluminum frame, and each individual part based on it's performance, etc. (much like we all do with guitars now). All totaled up, everything came out to nearly $1500 (7 years ago). That doesn't mean that I had or have a $1500 mountain bike though. The equivalent in a store (brand new) would sell for closer to $1K. Used, I'd be lucky to get $600 for it. Now, that'd be closer to $300.

The same holds true for guitars. Add up the cost of a Swamp Ash body, maple neck, pickups, tuners, fretwire, etc., build it yourself, and you're not suddenly going to have a $1K guitar if the exact same guitar as a Fender Strat sells new for $700. You just chose to go a more expensive route at getting all of these different components. You couldn't turn around and sell your new custom built guitar for $1K (unless you find an un-scrupulous buyer) because the exact same thing costs only $700 new.

All that to say, that when Fender, Ibanez, Gibson, Guild, etc., build a guitar, they're getting a huge discount on parts. We're usually paying 75% to 100% more for individual parts than they are (if not more than that, even). Doing the math off of that, we could end up spending twice as much (give or take) by building the exact same guitar ourselves. They just buy in quantity which pushes down their cost, which then translates into a lesser expensive guitar for us than if we did it ourselves.

In that vein, I don't think it's necessarily true that a guitar should be or can be truly valued at the total cost of all individual parts because that's not how the big companies sell a NON-custom made guitar to us. It'll naturally cost us far more to do it ourselves.

Do you agree?
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