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Unread 11-14-2003, 10:00 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gollum
Guitars are soooooooo great.... and people wonder why guitarist are known for drooling....
Careful. Drool can do some bad stuff to coated strings and pickups...

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Unread 11-14-2003, 02:16 PM   #32
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HAHAHA!!!! True, so true.

But it's like my sound buddy says.

How do you know when the stage is level?
When the guitarest drools out of both sides of his mouth.
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Unread 11-14-2003, 06:12 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CheshireCat
Also, plywood doesn't sound that great! I don't know if any makers are using plywood anymore, but tons of cheapies were made from it not even 10 years ago, or, perhaps 15.
Cheap Squiers still use plywood. I know this because I have one. It doesn't sound horrible, but has an overly bright tone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gollum
One thing i think we could do is compose a list of all guitars that fit low budgets, and classify them into different suggested stlyes.
If you read another one of Chesh's posts in the " What would your ideal/perfect guitar be, in detail, in terms of features and specs? " thread, you would know that the guitar you own really doesn't account for your musical style. It's not what you play, it's how you play. It's really all about the feel and tone of the guitar. Obviously, though, it looks slightly funny for a heavy metal guitarist to be playing a Telecaster, and a country bottleneck guitarist to be playing a B.C. Rich, it's all about how you play. I could play a heavy metal song on both a Strat and a Les Paul, but I would prefer the Les Paul, not because of the styles of music I could play on it (I could play anything on it from jazz to metal), but because of the tone it gives me.
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Unread 11-14-2003, 07:21 PM   #34
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Dang, so true... rainer... my bad...

I wasn't really thinking I guess.

I guess the only thing we can tech people is about what makes a good guitar a good guitar.
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Unread 11-15-2003, 02:52 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gollum
One thing i think we could do is compose a list of all guitars that fit low budgets, and classify them into different suggested stlyes. This would have to be a massive effort, but not unreachable. Just try writing a program some time without any programing knowlege. It's a very daunting task. But if you have a passion for it...

Just think, if we all had a text file like this. People would ask things like, what guitar should i buy? And we can just ask, what kinda music you like? And they say classic rock and we just say. Ok, here is a list of guitars from 150-600 dollors that could make nice classic rock guitars, go to a local shop and see what you think. Now, this doesn't really look good for out of usa poeople, but that's where harmony centeral comes in. They have the largest reader review base i've ever seen. they're a great place to see what people think of a particlar product before you buy.
the only possible problem with that is that at the intro level consistency in quality can be a problem. even in the world of electrics there is variance in the quality og the guitars contruct. some cheap guitars will be a steal for the money and others of the same make and model will run into problem after problem of intonation, tuning stability, etc... etc... when you get up into the higher echeolons of the market the consistency become much better... e.g. chances are you arnet going to come across a poorly made Gibson LP or SG. so that'd be my only problme wiht that at the low end is the fact that quiality can be inconsistent in the low end market.
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Unread 11-15-2003, 11:48 AM   #36
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That also might be a bad idea to compile a list, because someone with, say, rock tastes, my just see whats at the top of the list and go get an MIM Strat, when he or she might have been more satified with an Les Paul. (Again I go with the Strat/Les Paul comparison... )
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Unread 11-15-2003, 04:32 PM   #37
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I feel like we're in a maze. And the only way our is to stick together an try every possibility.

Anyone else feel that way?

Would to be possible for a noob to "feel" a good guitar if we taught them the differences? Personally that "feel" took a while to aquire.
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"What is man if thou arn't mindful of HIM" ~ Terry Scott Taylor, alarma
"Wanna wear more than just a Jesus Shirt" ~ Mukala
"I want to be a clone" ~ Steve Taylor
"If the healing happends as the time goes by, tell me why i still can't look her in they eye" ~ Steve Taylor
"Hero is a nice boy notion that the real world is going to destroy" ~ Steve Taylor
"Eviscerate words that evoke emtic thoughts*Dissect and discard what speaks of corpse in rot*The leprous stumps of the sick and the lame*The stoning of Stephen Job's scab covered frame*And john the baptist - a head on a platter Remove this gorefest - why should it matter?*You say this pace beckons evil spirits*But I care not what you call it*To me it's two hundred beats per minute*On tableture I scrawled it If you arrived at the site*Of calvary's scarlet fright*Would fears have made your feet take flight*And turn away from our Lord's plight" ~ Tourniquet
"If I could fly away, I'd fly away and never grace this earth again" ~ Me
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Unread 11-15-2003, 05:57 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gollum
I feel like we're in a maze. And the only way our is to stick together an try every possibility.

Anyone else feel that way?

Would to be possible for a noob to "feel" a good guitar if we taught them the differences? Personally that "feel" took a while to aquire.


It WOULD make things a lot easier if a newbie knew how to test a guitar by it's "feel"! Unfortunately, as has already been stated, feel is an aquired step! Something you get along the way to your experience in guitars. I doubt very much that it can be "taught" to a newbie! But there are other things you can make them aware of, such as how a guitar is made can affect it's playability.(For example, if a guitar is made in a dirt poor country, chances are the quality may not be all that good because not much attention is paid to inspecting guitars for quality...BEFORE they ship out the door! Most like that are slapped together as cheap and as fast as possible, making for a very poor playing instrument!) Other things such as different pickups make different sounds. Some guitar bodies (like a Les Paul) can be heavier than others. (such as a strat) You know, general, basic stuff that newbies can easily understand and adapt to. The last thing you want to do, though, is overwhelm them with so many choices, as I have stated before, they don't know where to begin! This is very easy to do with all the choices of guitars and parts on the market today and in making a guide needs to be considered! So in saying that, let me give suggestion #1 for the guide....DON'T OVERWHELM NEWBIES WITH INFORMATION! A pretty good start if you ask me. Use the K.I.S.S. method (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Last edited by webe123; 11-15-2003 at 06:05 PM.
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Unread 11-17-2003, 06:22 PM   #39
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If you want to talk about cheap guitars i built one for $28 from cherry and walnut and it sounds just fine. I'm in the process of building another but it will cost me a little more. i had a washburn that was made from plywood
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Unread 11-17-2003, 08:41 PM   #40
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Quote:
If you want to talk about cheap guitars i built one for $28 from cherry and walnut and it sounds just fine.
Well, I don't consider that "cheap". Guitar building is the great equalizer. That's what I did. I spent $500 and got a $3K to $5K guitar. I am now planning about a $2K upgrade that will put my guitar's value at $7K to $10K, compared to the opportunity cost of having it custom made.

I guarantee you, if everyone on here built a kit guitar, their perceptions of quality guitars would radically change, and the market would look 100 times different in the next few years!

Chesh
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Unread 11-18-2003, 11:01 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CheshireCat
Well, I don't consider that "cheap". Guitar building is the great equalizer. That's what I did. I spent $500 and got a $3K to $5K guitar. I am now planning about a $2K upgrade that will put my guitar's value at $7K to $10K, compared to the opportunity cost of having it custom made.

I guarantee you, if everyone on here built a kit guitar, their perceptions of quality guitars would radically change, and the market would look 100 times different in the next few years!

Chesh
Pictures! Pictures!
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Unread 11-18-2003, 06:15 PM   #42
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Here are two pics. They are from about 10 or 12 years ago after I had just built it. That's my bro in the pics. The one thing that is different is that black thing on the headstock is no longer there. That was a crude string retainer that I got from a locking nut.

Right now my guitar is in various states of disassembly as I am upgrading it.

I'm also right now building another guitar. This will be an ambitious and adventuresome endevour. Pics will be forthcoming of that as well.

Back to our topic at hand. How about a list of questions a newbie can ask that will help qualify his guitar purchase?

Chesh
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Unread 11-19-2003, 08:58 AM   #43
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I wish someone would have told me this two years ago when I got a guitar under $100 from musicyo.com.... I found out that was a stupid thing to do but I've got an acoustic now and it's sweet Oh yeah I got a friend from church that's been playing guitar longer than I've been alive that works at the music store to help me, and I had my eyes set on a really crappy acoustic too so I'm glad he helped
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Unread 11-19-2003, 10:35 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CheshireCat
Well, I don't consider that "cheap". Guitar building is the great equalizer. That's what I did. I spent $500 and got a $3K to $5K guitar. I am now planning about a $2K upgrade that will put my guitar's value at $7K to $10K, compared to the opportunity cost of having it custom made.
I do hate to get off-topic again, but how do you come up with the figure of $5K value of the guitar?

I mean no offense in the least and am certainly not accusing you of the example I'm about to use, but with my Taylor for instance, the list price on it was $3400. I paid $2400. Now, that doesn't mean I suddenly have a $3400 guitar. It's only worth what I can re-sell it for. Currently, that'd be somewhere around $1600 give or take a bit. I'm basically just curious what you did to the guitar, what it's made of, how you come up with the $$ value, etc.

- Ryan
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Unread 11-19-2003, 11:38 AM   #45
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Ryan - Taylor? You mean, an acoustic? If so, I was referring to hotrodding electrics, mostly. Electrics are a completely different game than acoustics. For one, acoustics aren't modular.

In my case, the kind of pickups I have usually only occur on guitars that are $2K and up, and especially the EQ circuit. Then there's the scalloping of the fretboad.

Fair market value to have a guitar like mine custom made would probably be about $3K to $5K, depending on where I shopped and who did it, but probably closer to $5K. Ordering the neck from Warmoth might cut costs, but all the custom features would drive the price back up again. I lucked out originally in that I got the neck from a guy I knew for $75!

The $2K of upgrades are at cost, being the cost of supplies and parts, and you only see these options standard on guitars that cost upwards of $7K to $10K, like Alembics and what not. That will include custom pickups from Duncan, a Sustainiac sustainer, full 3-band EQ, MIDI, Piezo-acoustic, new tension-free floating neck (which I am toying with building myself), custom inlays, locking tuners, earvana nut, plus other odds and ends. That is way more than even PRS's priciest model.

The only thing in GC that would come close to what I am planning would have been the Parker MidiFly, which they no longer carry (Or an Alembic, for that matter. I don't know if GC has ever seen a new Alembic in it's entire history!). And, even then, this guitar will be far superiour to the MidiFly in many respects, one being the MIDI itself. The MidiAxe system never really took off, and for good reason. You are tethered by power cables and what not (i.e. short cables and adapters you have to plug in to outlets). Fine in your home studio; not fine on stage. Most MIDI just has one cable that can be regular guitar cable length.

So, that's what we are talking about. With an acoustic, you can make improvements, like putting the money you would spend on the electronics, and put it towards a higher quality acoustic sound, and then add the pickup of your choice afterwards, but you really can't change out the topwood of an acoustic, for instance, or necessarily upgrade the bridge. At least, not like on an electric.

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