[bobthecockroach]

Do not be so quick to deal out judgement on those that oppose the consumption of alcoholic beverages.

Romans 14:6
He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.

Romans 14:14
I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

To him that considers alcohol unclean, it IS unclean and for them to drink it would be sin.

Consider sex. It is a gift from God but you would not consider it slap it God's face to remain single and celibate, would you?

[Daniel Horney]

I may not have explained myself well enough.

I agree that if someone does not think drinking is right for them, they should not do it. However, to proclaim it as sinful is wrong.

My point is that using wine appropriately is glorifying to God because we are enjoying one of his blessings. I mean no amnity towards people who don't drink or don't think its right for them to drink.

peace
D

[bobthecockroach]

But it IS sinful, at least to those who consider it as such. I'm not saying they should go around telling everyone that alcohol is sinful but they would not be speaking any untruth (from their perspective) if they did. If I thought alcohol was inappropriate and I said, "Alcohol is sinful," it would be completely true for me. This may sound like relativism but it's not, it's Scripture.

[Daniel Horney]

Originally Posted by bobthecockroach

But it IS sinful, at least to those who consider it as such. I'm not saying they should go around telling everyone that alcohol is sinful but they would not be speaking any untruth (from their perspective) if they did. If I thought alcohol was inappropriate and I said, "Alcohol is sinful," it would be completely true for me. This may sound like relativism but it's not, it's Scripture.

I understand, but it is important for them to specify that it is sinful for them but not for everyone.

[bobthecockroach]

I guess so.

[Travis]

Originally Posted by bobthecockroach

Do not be so quick to deal out judgement on those that oppose the consumption of alcoholic beverages.

Romans 14:6
He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.

Romans 14:14
I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

To him that considers alcohol unclean, it IS unclean and for them to drink it would be sin.

Consider sex. It is a gift from God but you would not consider it slap it God's face to remain single and celibate, would you?

It's totally cool if someone wishes to abstain. The problem is when they try to tell others they are sinning by drinking. Furthermore, as you noted, if they think it's wrong they should not do it. However, we should teach them the truth--that it is perfectly fine to do. Also, those who abstain from alcohol do run into a problem with taking The Lord's Supper, since Christ instituted real wine for that sacrament and commanded it to be taken.

[Daniel Horney]

why can't I say what I mean like that?

[redbaron]

Originally Posted by Travis

It's totally cool if someone wishes to abstain. The problem is when they try to tell others they are sinning by drinking. Furthermore, as you noted, if they think it's wrong they should not do it. However, we should teach them the truth--that it is perfectly fine to do. Also, those who abstain from alcohol do run into a problem with taking The Lord's Supper, since Christ instituted real wine for that sacrament and commanded it to be taken.

Travis, i agree with you. I go to a church that has wine for communion, and several of the elders list "beer" as a favorite thing. In my opinion there's nothing wrong with enjoying that which God has provided for you. I think that the reason that excess is spoken of so much is that when we drink to excess we lose the ability to maintain self control (fruit of the spirit) and we have periods that we don't remember.

I've only been truly drunk once, and I fell off a cliff. that was enough for me.

Anyhow, here's an interesting segment on the church and alchohol*

*not guarunteed not to offend, read with an open mind, and an open heart (a thick skin might not hurt for some either.).