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Unread 10-18-2003, 01:25 PM   #1
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les paul DC cheap copies or kits?

well, i really like the look of a les paul DC and PRS (they look the same to me), but I wanna find a cheap copy or a kit so i can mess around with it and make something cool...anyone have any recommendations? I couldn't find any knockoffs of PRS's, and the closest I came to a DC was a Jay Turser, but it didn't look quite right...

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Unread 10-18-2003, 01:30 PM   #2
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I know that Samick makes both Les Paul and PRS Custom copies. I don't know where you could find them, though. I believe the LP DC has even treble and bass horns, while the PRS would be thinner and have a accentuated bass horn. The electronic design will also be different, especially in pickup selection.
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Last edited by Rainer.; 10-18-2003 at 01:38 PM.
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Unread 10-18-2003, 01:32 PM   #3
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What's a "DC"? "Double Cutaway"? You mean like an LP Jr.?

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Unread 10-18-2003, 06:18 PM   #4
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yes, "DC" is for "Double Cut." But no... not like a Les Paul Jr.

Les Paul Double Cut

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Unread 10-18-2003, 07:32 PM   #5
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Well, yeah, that's what I meant, tho, it's been classically referred to as the LP Jr., or was, tho I noticed that they don't on the website (anymore, apparantly).

What do you mean when you say cheap copy? I'm sure there's some Epi out there for $100. Kit's? Don't think so.

What are you looking for, quality wise? I mean, yeah, "cheap", but do you want it to actually play and be a valued instrument, or do you just want to do this for a lark?

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Unread 10-18-2003, 09:19 PM   #6
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well, i'm looking more for a pretty body and stuff than good electronics and whatever...

I'd want to be able to play it, but i'm not much of a electric person anyways...and i don't take lessons. guitar is a hobby, and I just want something to mess around with, replace electronics and other stuff. As long as the body and neck are decent.
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Unread 10-18-2003, 09:40 PM   #7
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Quote:
well, i'm looking more for a pretty body and stuff than good electronics and whatever...

I'd want to be able to play it, but i'm not much of a electric person anyways...and i don't take lessons. guitar is a hobby, and I just want something to mess around with, replace electronics and other stuff. As long as the body and neck are decent.
Well, pretty much everything you said there is contradictory.

Try this.

What would your dream LP DC look like, then we can tell you how to create it as cheaply as possible.

Cool?

Seriously. Sky's the limit.

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Unread 10-19-2003, 10:02 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astromonkeyx
I'd want to be able to play it, but i'm not much of a electric person anyways...and i don't take lessons. guitar is a hobby, and I just want something to mess around with, replace electronics and other stuff. As long as the body and neck are decent.
That's how I was, an acoustic person. But, I got an electric for those same reasons. Suddenly, I went almost all out electric, and now I have a Les Paul with great electronics and a marshall combo...

Not saying that it'll happen to you, but I would try to get a guitar that sounds good. I got a real Gibson LP, and I'm still gonna replace the electronics, but the neck and body are much better than any Epi out there.
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Unread 10-19-2003, 12:49 PM   #9
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Well, Warmoth might be the ticket here. Word around the campfire is "they won't really work with you, they just sell what they sell", but then, what they sell looks to be exactly what you want.

But it won't be "cheap". It won't be expensive either, and you may actually save money, getting an instrument twice as good as the $1K ticket instrument is, and for a lot less.

Here's the deal, and everyone here needs to hear this.

You can't go cheap on your sound and expect quality results.

The maxim: "you get what you pay for" is triply so, especially at the price ranges you guys often operate at, from free to $200.

Now, as prices into the Stratosphere (so that's where Leo got the name! ), then they can get really inflated, especially with a lot of "collectors" thinking that if a guitar costs more, it must be more valuable. Not true by a long shot.

Here's the thing. If you end up with a crappie electric, you're staying an acoustic man. Simply put, your acoustic will be your only playable, non-crappy instrument. If, however, you end with an excellent, playable electric - not the best but definitely functionable - then you will probably take to electric in a big way. The key thing is to educate yourself about music.

Also, when you start your career, if you haven't already, and you are making at least $25K for the next 40 years, you are looking at making $1M in your lifetime. $1,000,000!!!

What if you make $50K a year? How about $2,000,000!!!

Point is, in your lifetime, you can expect to make $1M to $2M. Now, granted, a lot of that will go to living expenses and what not, and raising a family, and so on.

But, do you think you could squeeze out a few K's for decent equipment?

Here's the deal. (This goes to everyone with money conversations.) It's not a question of if you have the money. You'll have it for sure. Unless you want to live at home and have your mom and dad take care of you till they die or your 65 or something and on the doll (which is the extreme case obviously) you'll have the money.

It's not a question of if, it's a question of when, so then the question needs to be what.

What do you really want? How do you want what you really want to sound? How do you want what you really want to play? What do you want to accomplish with what you really want?

As you answer there questions, you get a vary clear idea of what you want, and know what you need to accomplish what you want to accomplish. This is called empowerment. You increase your effectiveness and buying power, and save money that would otherwise be misspent, when you answer these questions.

You shouldn't really ever have a "dream guitar". It should be a "real guitar"! Or a "real by when guitar". The difference between a dream guitar and owning it is a matter of when. You will eventually have the money, and you can also get creative to earn up for it. In the context to your life, giving your earning history that you are going to have, you will eventually have the money to get whatever you want to get.

And, as is often said, most battles are fought and won before you ever step onto the battlefield. If you know exactly what you want, know how to get it, educate yourself where you don't know, then you can get exactly what you want and save a fortune as well.

And, you have the perfect forum here to do that, but you need to ask the right questions to get these kinds of useful answers.

A good first post would be, "What questions should I ask about getting a new guitar."

Also, for the last time, THIS IS THE ABSOLUTE WORST ADVICE YOU COULD GIVE SOMEONE IN BUYING A GUITAR!!!!!: Go down to your local music store, play all the guitars in your price range, and buy the one that sounds (feels, plays) the best to you.

Well!?!

What if they all suck!?! What if they are only crap guitars? What if an excellent guitar is one rack over and costs $50 more, and then we totally step into something of quality that can be further upgraded?

Our young, neophite guitar purchaser won't know this or understand this and will totally miss out because he didn't do his homework because he didn't know to because he didn't know what to look/ask for, and so on.

Besides, to the untrained, and mass-marketing strained, eye, most of these guitars look identical. (Some are anyways, but that's a different story.) Most of these cheapies, and, coining a new buying term, crappies look identical to good ones for a very good and lucrative reason.

This is why education is so important. Asking questions of those knowledgable and who do not have a vested interest (i.e. commission) for you buying one instrument vs. another.

Chesh

Last edited by CheshireCat; 10-19-2003 at 01:21 PM.
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Unread 10-19-2003, 01:14 PM   #10
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Also, understand, I know of what I speak.

Because of getting this kind of education, and researching, talking to people, knowing what to look for, and so on, I built my guitar that would go for $2,000 to $5,000 for ONLY $500!!

And I was only 21 at the time, was a bit handy with tools but never did anything remotely like that, and every one of you on here can do the exact same thing.

When I start taking on guitar students in the future, I'm probably going to have them build a kit guitar while taking lessons on their main guitar, so that they get an excellent education in guitar construction and mechanics.

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Unread 10-19-2003, 07:52 PM   #11
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haha, love the guitar ches. I'd read your descriptions, but i never expected the chopping board w/ cutaway look (for lack of a better analogy). it looks pretty nice actually, heh.

Actually, I was a bit wary of buying an electric guitar, guitar being as I said earlier, a hobby after all. You feel a little guilty after you find out you have a nicer/more expensive guitar than your friend who actually takes classical guitar lessons. I completely agree w/ the "you get what you pay for" line, but I also know that you can get a nice guitar without that expensive price tag. When I just started playing acoustic, my mom had bought me a package yamaha from costco. It was actually pretty nice for the cost but I ended up returning it and getting a base Seagull for about 400 w/ everything (after u add in pick up and case and other stuff), which in my opinion was a lot nicer, and I hope will last me well into college. I'm thinking that I'll be using it for 8-10 years before I want to get an Artist series or Taylor...in my opinion, it's definitely not worth it dishing out $800+ for something that is a "hobby," especially since i'm stuck w/ bass on the p&w crew anyways ;p I should also mention that I'm just 14 right now, so it'll be a few years before the $$ start rolling in.

This electric thing will be (in my parent's eyes at least) a purely fun and leisure thing, kinda like grown up pokemon cards (which I wasted 300 bucks on. still can't believe i was that stupid. i did have some pretty nice cards though...hehe). Now i'm not looking for a cheap/crap guitar, i don't think anyone is, or just a "cheap" one either. I want to get the best guitar for the money I'm planning on using (200-500 max), but that's gonna be salvaging some stuff. I want a LP DC body or PRS, so that's what i'm looking for. I don't *really* care if it's flamed or not (though i would prefer it to be an flamed archtop), as long as it's solid wood and have a decent price i'll settle for it. Actually I found a saga kit w/ a flamed, i believe poplar PRS body...going on Ebay for $150 which I might consider. even if i end up replacing most of the parts, i'll get the body and neck for a nice price. http://www.internationalluthiers.com/electricparts.php middle of the page.

As for "dream guitar"? I don't really have one, or any idea actually. Acoustic speaking, I know I want a Seagull Artist or a Taylor, but I don't really care right now...I'm not very deserving of anything expensive right now. Electric-wise I really have no clue. Dream guitar isn't much of a problem for me, but i'm sure if I ever do have a dream guitar, i'll get it when i'm old with nothing to do with my money, but it is not one of my "priorities." I doubt i'll ever be able to buy "really" nice guitar gear before i'm out of college...though I'm sure I'd be able to get my parents to let me, i'd feel guilty, and there are so many other things that i've got to do well, i shouldn't even have time to post here. but i do anyways, which says a lot about how much i procrastinate...i won't get into that.


anyways, to rainer: I agree, I should get a "quality" guitar, but if i do that i'm gonna be waiting a loong time before I really get to mess around with a "decent" electric. it'll be pretty hard to convince my mom why I should be able to spend that much on an electric guitar right now...but if I find a good deal on a good guitar, i'll take it, as anyone would.


i do have one question though. What exactly is a "body blank"? Is that just a slab of wood for you to cut into a body shape?
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Unread 10-19-2003, 07:56 PM   #12
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Here's a guitar I picked up a while back for $350.00, a Samick model SPN4450-QF. Mine is blue. They apparently don't make it any more - its not on their website. Anyway, its a great guitar; craftsmanship as good as a Gibson or whatever, quality hardware and good straight neck - set the strings as low as you want. Sounds great, mucho sustaino. I compared it to some PRS's listening to it acoustically- very close. Now they must have changed it a little, because one Canadian website that is selling it for $610. (american ) has alder listed as the body wood, and the headstock has "Samick", as opposed to mine which is Nato (mahogany family) neck and body, and has an inlaid "S" on the headstock. There is a vendor on ebay selling these for $199.00 buy-it-now price, now THAT is cheap for a guitar of this caliber.
There are tons of Korean imports available these days that are just incredible guitar values, especially if you buy one used, or find a closeout deal. They make a lot of professional quality stuff that can be had for $300 - $500.
I have found a lot of cheap guitars have potential, they often just need a couple adjustments or repairs to make 'em playable. I fixed up a Stinger SSX strat-like plywood bodied 80's import for a friend who picked it up for $50.00. I used it for P & W one Sunday, and it sounded awesome! I couldn't believe it. I told the guy if he ever sells it, I get first right of refusal. Anyway, I get a perverse pleasure getting good sounds from cheap guitars....
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Unread 10-19-2003, 08:05 PM   #13
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hmm, i'll look at samick guitars, haven't heard much of them though. As for the Stinger, I actually have a LP style Stinger right now (though it's not a DC), it's okay but only one of the humbuckers work, the knobs are coming off, the jack is loose, I had to reglue the nut, and it's not really mine. I've tried to find some more info on them but came up with nothing...

I am looking more at asia guitars, as you said I think there are a lot of the cheaper ones that are pretty good quality...

"I get a perverse pleasure getting good sounds from cheap guitars...."
haha, don't we all...or maybe we're just weird
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Unread 10-19-2003, 08:19 PM   #14
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well doing a quick search for a PRS-samick (not LP DCs) i got this:

http://www.acemusicsuperstore.com/pr...roducts_id/209

there are higher models w/ quilt tops, but this is a good basic one...

i'll be looking, but this is promising
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Unread 10-19-2003, 08:24 PM   #15
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Samick is the largest producer of guitars in the world. They have their own products, but also build a lot of guitars for other companies with their design, specs and brand name - Epiphones were once made there (maybe still are?), for example.
Yeah, that Stinger did have some cheap components, but it rocks. That stuff you mentioned shouldn't be too hard to fix...That Luan plywood is very soft - screws get stripped out very easy, but it makes a surprisingly good sounding guitar.
Oh, yeah one other thing, some of the set-neck Korean guitars are maple bodies; stay away from that, an all maple solid body (not a maple capped like a Les Paul) sounds like dog doo-doo, lots of sustain, but no character IMHO.
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