[ICTHUS]

Originally Posted by Travis

Then you are in open rebellion against The Lord God.

Leviticus 18:22
You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

Leviticus 20:13
If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

Scripture puts homosexuality on the same level as murder by giving it the same civil penalty--death.

Romans 1:24-32
Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Though they know God's decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

You are just as bad if you are giving approval to homosexuals.

1 Cor. 6:9-11
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

1 Tim. 1:8-11
Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, in accordance with the glorious gospel of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.

Homosexuality is constantly, in Scripture, made equal in severity with murder. The sin of homosexuality is just as bad as killing someone.

Thank you Travis. I was waiting for such a bombshell post, and you gave it, in your usual style. Can I ask emilycole for a reply, please?

[Mathaytace ><>]

The Bible and the Church have called Homosexuality a sin for the past 2000 years.

Homosexuality is a sin.

[Travis]

More like 5000--don't forget the OT.

[Mrstickball]

Originally Posted by emilycole

does homosexuality physically hurt anyone? murder... all of that stuff does... dont twist my words around in an attempt to make me break down and say gay is wrong, because i wont.

Actually, it hurts people.

Physically, the male anatomy is not designed for sexual intercourse with another man, nor females . At this point, I could become graphic, but I'll leave you to know exactly what Im talking about. If God deemed homosexuality alright, then why wasn't the body made for intercourse between 2 men or 2 women?

[ICTHUS]

Emily, we're still waiting for you to respond to our arguments. If we're wrong, please show us where.

[emilycole]

i'm dreadfully sorry to have kept you all waiting for such a long time, i was participating in National Happening, which may shock some of you, based on the fact that i'm pretty much doomed to Hell. i do NOT see God in sexuality, and if that makes me a horrible person, then so be it. but i refuse to let you destroy my own personal thoughts of this any more than you have. on the way home this weekend, riding in a train with 20 other kids from NHCL, we pulled out a guitar, and were singing Christian music. we stopped a man and asked his favorite praise song, played it for him and invited him to join us, which he did. we ignored the rude comments being made in our direction due to that one man, and another. a man at the end of the car wearing burlap and holding a cardboard sign reading "will work for Jesus". he watched us, smiling, and was wiping tears from his eyes when he got off the train. that is God. not the man, or the group i was with, but something else that existed between us. it was a kind of an energy there, and it was such a beautiful moment. and it would have existed even if we were all homosexuals. you and i view God differently, but the same. we all share God's word, you just share the rules, and regulations, and punishments, and i'm not interested in that. it's the love and the connections that hold people together like it held us on the train.

[JESOd]

i do NOT see God in sexuality

?? i'm a bit confused...but why not?

but i refuse to let you destroy my own personal thoughts of this any more than you have.

we're just trying to show you that your thoughts need to line up with God's...they don't.

on the way home this weekend, riding in a train with 20 other kids from NHCL, we pulled out a guitar, and were singing Christian music. we stopped a man and asked his favorite praise song, played it for him and invited him to join us, which he did. we ignored the rude comments being made in our direction due to that one man, and another. a man at the end of the car wearing burlap and holding a cardboard sign reading "will work for Jesus". he watched us, smiling, and was wiping tears from his eyes when he got off the train. that is God. not the man, or the group i was with, but something else that existed between us. it was a kind of an energy there, and it was such a beautiful moment.

i am not arguing that the Holy Spirit wasn't amongst you all, but God is much more then compassionate energy. don't limit what God is...

and it would have existed even if we were all homosexuals.

yes, no one ever said it wouldn't have... we're just saying that homosexuality is a sin.

you and i view God differently, but the same.

umm... it's like saying same difference... we see God differently; therefore we do not see God the same.

we all share God's word,

you are not sharing God's word when you refuse to accept it as a living and complete Truth.

you just share the rules, and regulations, and punishments, and i'm not interested in that.

excuse me. I share God's Love. If You love him, You'd obey Him. If you do not know the rules, how are you suppose to follow them? It's like having a parent that never tells you the rules but when you break one you get grounded. Stop picking and choosing what you want God to be.

it's the love and the connections that hold people together like it held us on the train.

God is love, but God is also so many other things. Stop limiting Him.

[Travis]

Originally Posted by emilycole

i do NOT see God in sexuality, and if that makes me a horrible person, then so be it.

What do you mean you don’t see God in sexuality? Do you mean you don’t recognize His commandments on the issue?

Just out of curiosity, do you think it is wrong to have sex with animals?

Originally Posted by emilycole

but i refuse to let you destroy my own personal thoughts of this any more than you have.

You refuse to let Scripture tell you that you are wrong?

Originally Posted by emilycole

on the way home this weekend, riding in a train with 20 other kids from NHCL, we pulled out a guitar, and were singing Christian music. we stopped a man and asked his favorite praise song, played it for him and invited him to join us, which he did. we ignored the rude comments being made in our direction due to that one man, and another. a man at the end of the car wearing burlap and holding a cardboard sign reading "will work for Jesus". he watched us, smiling, and was wiping tears from his eyes when he got off the train. that is God.

How is that God? Are you a pantheist?

Originally Posted by emilycole

not the man, or the group i was with, but something else that existed between us. it was a kind of an energy there, and it was such a beautiful moment. and it would have existed even if we were all homosexuals. you and i view God differently, but the same. we all share God's word

No, you ignore God’s word in favor of your own sinful opinions.

Originally Posted by emilycole

you just share the rules, and regulations, and punishments, and i'm not interested in that.

Then you do not love God.

John 14:15
"If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome

[ICTHUS]

Originally Posted by Travis

How is that God? Are you a pantheist?

Travis, I believe her line of reasoning may have been Matt 25:37-40

Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

I believe she may have been referring to 'seeing Christ in the poor and downtrodden' which is a metaphor I myself use/think of at times.

[emilycole]

Originally Posted by ICTHUS

Travis, I believe her line of reasoning may have been Matt 25:37-40

Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

I believe she may have been referring to 'seeing Christ in the poor and downtrodden' which is a metaphor I myself use/think of at times.

not so much the poor and downtrodden... i think you can see God everywhere. and i saw God more in the fact that we had shared God with someone else. it wasnt simply that man... i could feel like i was doing something for God, and that God was present in that. but i dont expect you to pay any attention to what i'm saying. i dont need your approval. go out and tell homosexuals to repent. i'm completely straight and dont mean to be getting in the way of your God given work. dreadfully sorry.

[ICTHUS]

Originally Posted by emilycole

not so much the poor and downtrodden... i think you can see God everywhere.

Agreed. God has revealed Himself in His creation, so that those who reject Him are without excuse (Romans 1)

and i saw God more in the fact that we had shared God with someone else. it wasnt simply that man... i could feel like i was doing something for God, and that God was present in that.

I see your point now. You were thinking Biblically along the lines of Matt 25

but i dont expect you to pay any attention to what i'm saying. i dont need your approval. go out and tell homosexuals to repent. i'm completely straight and dont mean to be getting in the way of your God given work. dreadfully sorry.

Emily, you have yet to respond to our use of Holy Scripture against your position. Please do so, or this discussion will continue to go nowhere.

[emilycole]

respond to the "i'm wrong, you're right?" ok, maybe i am wrong biblically, and maybe that means nothing good can come of me, but even if i were to say that to you, i would not believe it. i dont know how to explain what it is that i mean, i dont want to explain it even if i knew. i just know it's how i feel... and it's a feeling that i get. and even if i'm wrong, then may God strike me dead... but if i'm wrong, then there has to be a reason that i feel like this. and if you cant explain that, then you cant explain anything. anyone can read the book, but can everyone know what the author was thinking? i dont profess to, maybe you shouldnt either.

[ICTHUS]

Originally Posted by emilycole

respond to the "i'm wrong, you're right?"

No, rather, we want you to respond to our arguments based on Scripture and the laws of logic. We have a basis for our arguments. Do you?

ok, maybe i am wrong biblically, and maybe that means nothing good can come of me, but even if i were to say that to you, i would not believe it.

What??? Is it just me, or is this just nonsensical?

i just know it's how i feel... and it's a feeling that i get.

So let me get this straight. You profess to be a Christian, yet you base your opinions on feelings rather than the Word of God?

and even if i'm wrong, then may God strike me dead...

Emily, considering we have proved you wrong on the basis of Scripture, God's Word, are you sure you want to ask God to do that???

but if i'm wrong, then there has to be a reason that i feel like this. and if you cant explain that, then you cant explain anything.

I can explain it. The reason you feel like this is because your conscience is not formed according to God's Word, but according to the words of Bible 'teachers' who have tickled your ears rather than telling you the Truth.

anyone can read the book, but can everyone know what the author was thinking? i dont profess to, maybe you shouldnt either.

So would you like to provide an alternate interpretation to the verses we have provided? I'm all ears.

[emilycole]

you know what? you dont want this discussion to move forward, you want me to fight so that you can tell me i'm wrong, and every time i step off, you pull me back into it. if my ears have been tickled, then your ears have been beaten, and i'd almost prefer tickled over that. and maybe, if i'm wrong, it would be best if God were to strike me dead right now, maybe i do think i should say that, because if i am wrong, and the whole anglican church is a bunch of homophobes, then maybe i should take the quick trip to hell. am i blasphamous? whatever you say... i wont argue anymore simply to improve your own religious image in your own mind. stick to your hell fire and brimstone, if you want to, and i'll keep my thoughts, and you never have to hear from me again if i all of a sudden drop dead for being wrong.

[Travis]

I just pray you repent of your sin before you do "drop dead." With this sort of rebellion you have proven yourself to not be a follower of God whatsoever; you are not following Him as your Lord and thus it is evident that Christ is, at this point, not your savior. I'll pray for your soul.