[smitty2622]

Can you lose your salvation?
Luke 8
11
"This is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God.
12
Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved.
13
Those on the rock are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.

I think that this implies yes you can!

Originally posted by zoe renwick
Well, I dont believe that you can just pray a sinner's prayer and be "saved" and Jesus comes into your heart and you'll go to heaven no matter what. NOWHERE in the Bible does it say that.

Romans 10
8
But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart," that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming:
9
That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
10
For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

Uh lets see if you profess with your mouth? If the sinner’s prayer professes Jesus and that God raised him from the dead, he is certainly saved!

Romans 10
12
For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile--the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him,
13
for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
14
How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?

EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD. WILL BE SAVED!

Luke 18
25
Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
26
Those who heard this asked, "Who then can be saved?"
27
Jesus replied, "What is impossible with men is possible with God."

Just because we don’t think it’s possible doesn’t mean ANYTHIG!


OK I’m new but learning, so what do you think?

[zoe r]

I used to go to a church where they believed all you had to do was pray a prayer and and you'd be saved. You don't have to make any effort to do anything, just keep on sinning and keep on confessing and keep going to church and you'll go to heaven.

That's what I mean by sinner's prayer. it's kind of like a cult doctrine or something, I didn't mean the prayer in itself. Of course, we all have to believe and confess, and quit living in our sin. Which..my church didnt believe. They said Jesus did all the work and now we can just enjoy His grace and not have to stop or change any of our sinful habits.

And luke..yep, hand in hand is what i meant..they go together..
and...an unsaved person can never be perfect..we're only perfected through Jesus..1 John 2:4-5 says that..so yeah i mean it's technically possible.
*sigh* Everything makes sense in my head and then i go try to explain it and i confuse everyone, including me.

[Luke]

Originally posted by smitty2622
Can you lose your salvation?
Luke 8
11
"This is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God.
12
Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved.
13
Those on the rock are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.

I think that this implies yes you can!

I don't think so. Look at the parable again.

Verse 12 is clearly talking about people who were never saved to begin with, which is evident by the phrase "so that they may not believe and be saved", which would be silly if they had believed already.

Verse 13 lends itself more to the interpretation, but it is also perfectly reasonable to say that the statement "they had no root" to mean that they actually weren't saved in the first place.

Since this is somewhat unclear, we turn to the proper exegetical method of interpreting Scripture with Scripture, the unclear with the clear. And since 1 John 2:19-25 speaks of a very similar situation but makes it clear that those people were not saved in the first place, it only makes sense to say that the same applies here.

Originally posted by zoe renwick
Well, I dont believe that you can just pray a sinner's prayer and be "saved" and Jesus comes into your heart and you'll go to heaven no matter what. NOWHERE in the Bible does it say that.

Romans 10
8
But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart," that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming:
9
That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
10
For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

Uh lets see if you profess with your mouth? If the sinner’s prayer professes Jesus and that God raised him from the dead, he is certainly saved!

You're reading your own viewpoint into that passage. There were two requirements there--confess with your mouth and believe in your heart. You forgot about that one.

Belief in your heart is necessary for salvation, and that belief can only come as a result of salvific faith given to you by God (Ephesians 2:9), which will also result in repentance.

The notion that a salvific faith will also result in repentance is certainly a Scriptural one.

"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments." (John 14:15, NASB)

"Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself. ¹⁸But someone may well say, "You have faith, and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works." (James 2:17-18, NASB)

James continues on that rant through verse 26.

Romans 10
12
For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile--the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him,
13
for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
14
How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?

EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD. WILL BE SAVED!

Can we possibly rip this any more out of context? What does verse 14 say--the very next sentence? "How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in?"

Belief, as spoken of in Romans 10:9, is a prerequisite for calling. Sure, any idiot can get up and say, "Lord, save me", but it's not salvific unless belief with a foundation of God-given faith accompanies it.

Luke 18
25
Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
26
Those who heard this asked, "Who then can be saved?"
27
Jesus replied, "What is impossible with men is possible with God."

Just because we don’t think it’s possible doesn’t mean ANYTHIG!

What on earth are you saying by this?

[smitty2622]

Lets look at this
13
Those on the rock are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.

They receive the seed word of god. They believe, then, they fall away. Seems pretty clear?
How could they believe in the first place without faith from God?

Uh lets see if you profess with your mouth? If the sinner’s prayer professes Jesus and that God raised him from the dead, he is certainly saved!

You're reading your own viewpoint into that passage. There were two requirements there--confess with your mouth and believe in your heart. You forgot about that one.

How can they confess the lord without believing it in there heart in the first place, I left this out of my sentence but that is obviously the reason they would pray a prayer like that in the first place.

EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD. WILL BE SAVED!

Can we possibly rip this any more out of context? What does verse 14 say--the very next sentence? "How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in?"

Belief, as spoken of in Romans 10:9, is a prerequisite for calling. Sure, any idiot can get up and say, "Lord, save me", but it's not salvific unless belief with a foundation of God-given faith accompanies it.

Out of context?

Verse 14 is the point how can they call if they don’t believe, they cant!

Now this one
Jesus replied, "What is impossible with men is possible with God."

What on earth are you saying by this?

The point here is that what we think is irrelevant we are foolish we may feel they can’t be saved by simply confessing the lord and believing that God raised him from the dead but what we think does not matter.

Basically out of all this we get anyone who calls on the name of the lord will be saved. We can’t call on the lord without first believing in the lord with faith that comes from God. So if God sees fit to save someone for doing this only one time, then great who are we to say no? If this is wrong why are there so many references to it in the bible?

[Luke]

You realize that this is very difficult to reply to (or read, for that matter) because there's no distinction between my writing and yours...

Originally posted by smitty2622
13
Those on the rock are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.

They receive the seed word of god. They believe, then, they fall away. Seems pretty clear?
How could they believe in the first place without faith from God?

The question here is if we are referring to spurious belief or salvific belief. James says that even the demons believe in God and that Christ rose from the dead, but that belief surely does not save them. It's not the kind of belief that saves.

Here we must make a distinction between belief and faith. Faith is given to the elect by God (Ephesians 2:9). Faith produces true belief in Jesus Christ and causes repentance.

Notice Ephesians 2:9 does not say "For it is by grace you have been saved through belief." Belief in itself is not salvific. It is faith that saves. Belief is an outcome of faith, and belief can be measured by men, whereas faith cannot, which is why Romans 10:9-10 that you must believe to be saved, because faith will result in salvific belief. But belief is a result of regeneration, not the other way around.

Uh lets see if you profess with your mouth? If the sinner’s prayer professes Jesus and that God raised him from the dead, he is certainly saved!

But the Bible says you need to believe in your heart and it also says that we're saved grace through faith, not by a confession.

How can they confess the lord without believing it in there heart in the first place, I left this out of my sentence but that is obviously the reason they would pray a prayer like that in the first place.

So you don't think anybody ever prays a prayer like that not meaning it? If you honestly don't think so, you're out of your mind. Go to a revival meeting and look at all the pressure put on people to confess and give their life to Christ. Among other reasons...

One thing I don't like about the Second Great Awakening is all the emphasis on pressuring individuals to capitulate and "make a decision" for Christ. Everything from Invitations to Revivals to other things our churches do are bent on getting as many people down the aisle as possible, and although often that is done with pure motives, it does have very negative side effects.

EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD. WILL BE SAVED!

Can we possibly rip this any more out of context? What does verse 14 say--the very next sentence? "How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in?"

Belief, as spoken of in Romans 10:9, is a prerequisite for calling. Sure, any idiot can get up and say, "Lord, save me", but it's not salvific unless belief with a foundation of God-given faith accompanies it.

Out of context?

Verse 14 is the point how can they call if they don’t believe, they cant!

But you say by quoting the Parable of the Sower that many do, and then fall away.

We must remember that we are referring to a confession that actually is salvific.

Now this one
Jesus replied, "What is impossible with men is possible with God."

What on earth are you saying by this?

The point here is that what we think is irrelevant we are foolish we may feel they can’t be saved by simply confessing the lord and believing that God raised him from the dead but what we think does not matter.

Basically out of all this we get anyone who calls on the name of the lord will be saved. We can’t call on the lord without first believing in the lord with faith that comes from God. So if God sees fit to save someone for doing this only one time, then great who are we to say no? If this is wrong why are there so many references to it in the bible?

I've completely lost the point you're trying to make now.

If your point is that salvation can be lost, you're wrong and failing to deal with Scriptures that expressly say that you can't.

If you're saying that all you need for salvation is an audible confession, you're also wrong. Many, many people make audible confessions of Christ and are not, in fact, saved. It must have a foundation to it. But I don't think you've denied that. What you have denied is that one can spuriously "call" upon Christ, but the Bible does have examples of those who do so (Aninias, Judas Iscariot, Saul (the OT one), Jehu).

If I'm refuting something you didn't intend to say, sorry. I completely lost where we're going with this somewhere in there.

[smitty2622]

Sorry for the confusion in my post. On, the issue of losing salvation. My feelings on this are contrary to my life’s experience; I was saved as a small boy but turned away for a long period of time. I never out and out denied Jesus that I can remember? But was in no way living a Christian life I was recently brought back to the life I believe I’m supposed to live THANK GOD! It seems to me that if I had chances to deny the lord, and if I had wouldn’t I have been lost? This is why I feel it is possible for this to happen and I was painfully close to this if it is possible.
On the sinners prayer thing, I believe I read somewhere in the Bible that it was not possible for a non-believer to confess Christ as lord and savior. I cant seem to find the passage now so maybe it was what I wanted to believe and not actually true? I don’t know maybe you know of the passage I’m talking about. I have read the New Testament in it’s entirety at least one time. The Old Testament I learned to read from but have not read it for a long time. Anyway I have learned a lot from these boards and have read more of the bible in the time I’ve been on these boards.

[Luke]

I know which verse you're talking about. It's referring to spirit beings, not humans, however. I can find it if you wish.

As far as your life's experience, look back and instead see God's preservation of you, how close you may have come but how God preserved you through and through and brought you to where you are now. Then, when you read the Scripture that says nobody can snatch the saved out of the Father's hand (which I can't remember the reference for off hand, see above in this thread somewhere), you can affirm from your life that it is true.

And yes, praise the Lord!

[Insane Drummer]

ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED

this is a bible verse i forgot were it was

"my father who has given them to me is greater then all and NO ONE is able to snatch them out of my fathers hand."

what does that tell you. no one can snatch you out his hand. ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED (that verse might not be word perfect i think y'all should try to find it

[Insane Drummer]

oops someone already posted that verse